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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To think Mumsnet is OBSESSED

974 replies

AccidentalKylie · 22/03/2018 20:11

I used to read Mumsnet because it was a lot of clever, funny women talking about stuff I was interested in, but it's become a one issue forum. It's exhausting.

To think Mumsnet is OBSESSED
OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
RoseWhiteTips · 22/03/2018 21:19

Agree. Dreadfully earnest and tedious in the extreme. Zzzzzzz

PoetryCorner · 22/03/2018 21:20

Great thread. I've not been inspired to cobble together a poetic ditty for years but this one really got me going. I'm calling it "Peaking on Mumsnet."

Pink for the girls, blue for the boys.
What do you mean there are genderless toys?
Boys on the left and girls on the right,
I think it's all bullshit but try as a might,
I like haircuts and perfume and dresses and shoes,
And I can't really see what rights women could lose.
It doesn't matter you see because everythings great,
I have two lovely children, a nice house and don't hate,
Anyone else - why would I? That's mean?
Hold on, did I just hear you say "lady peen"?
No, it can't be, it won't be, that's not possible, right?
That's a boy on the left and a girl on the right?
Now you say I'm a TERF, but what is one of those?
I'm not one of those nasty feminist transphobes?
But this lady peen thing, I'm a little confused.
I thought there were rules about whose bits were whose.
And you said cotton ceiling. Just tell me again,
Which lesbian it was who liked sleeping with men?
Oh, that one - the trans one - so that makes them hetero?
But if they've got a penis... that means, um... Oh.
Sorry I spoke, but now where do I go?
On mumsnet it's all about babies and telly,
Or school uniforms, car seats, and sugar-free jelly.
If only there were one place I could find out more.
There is? Great, I'm off to the Feminist Board :-)

You're welcome.

MrsJoshDun · 22/03/2018 21:20

In April 2017, Riley J Dennis, a writer, YouTuber, and trans activist, who identifies as “a non-binary transwoman” and is in a relationship with a woman (which you’d be forgiven for assuming is simply a heterosexual relationship), posted a video asking the question, “Are genital preferences transphobic?” Dennis’ conclusion was that if you are a lesbian who won’t consider having sex with a person with a penis, you are “cissexist.”

In the video, Dennis explains, “If you’re a woman who only likes women, go ahead, identify as a lesbian, but some women have penises.”

The idea that all lesbians have simply decided to choose to “identify” as lesbians, regardless of sexual preference, is behind the practice of corrective rape and men’s attempts to “turn” lesbians heterosexual via their penises. Claiming a penis can be “female” is nothing more than gaslighting, and has become a politically correct way to bully lesbians into sleeping with men.

www.feministcurrent.com/2017/07/08/lesbianism-attack-though-not-usual-suspects/

TheBrilliantMistake · 22/03/2018 21:21

Men as a class should learn to be more tolerant of trans identifying males so that they can be themselves without insisting they can be women.

That leaves trans stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Men absolutely should be tolerant of trans, but even if there was 100% acceptance, transwomen could never be 'women' because there would be a constant reminder that they were still men when they are forced to change with men, even if they have a vulva / breasts.
At the same time, many women object to diminishing their sex based rights by allowing transwomen to inherit thought right of their own accord. Both men and woman are still effectively saying 'ok, you're not REALLY one of us are you?' - and that's pretty much where we are at.

If a transwoman has a pair of tits, men say 'you're not one of us, nor do you want to be', and the women say 'you want to be one of us, but you never really can be'.

JennyJames · 22/03/2018 21:22

Sorry, did you miss a lot of history classes at school?

Says the poster who cannot understand why women want a debate... a debate... about watering down the hard won rights of women the month after the 100 year anniversary of women obtaining the (limited) right to vote. 🤣🤣🤣

Wonder if TIMs would have been in such a rush to insist they were women back in 1918...

MrsJoshDun · 22/03/2018 21:23

It is, however, deeply transphobic to decide that you never want to date any transgender person ever, and the choice to draw such a line is rooted in ignorance, fear, and disgust of trans people.
The transgender community is a massively diverse group with all kinds of body types, genital configurations, personalities, hobbies, and relationship styles. To categorically exclude all people from that group, who would otherwise align with your sexuality (trans men for a straight woman, trans women for a lesbian woman, etc.) is not only missing out on many potential connections you could have with people who you would otherwise have a wonderful time dating, but also reinforces the oppressive social system that says transgender women aren’t “really” women because they were assigned male at birth, and vice versa for trans men.

medium.com/@QSE/when-you-say-i-would-never-date-a-trans-person-its-transphobic-here-s-why-aa6fdcf59aca

CadyHeron · 22/03/2018 21:24

It's discussed on national television nearly every day.*

No,it isn't. It's only just started to be mentioned on national news THIS WEEK due to the brilliant Man Friday.
Basically women identifying as male for the day and going into the males areas. And genuinely, why shouldn't they? After all,men do it.
We're allowed to self ID, aren't we? You say so yourself. Or is it only supposed to be one way?

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 22/03/2018 21:24

Women protecting their rights has always made people cross op.

Forevertired19 · 22/03/2018 21:25

I'm so done with it

CadyHeron · 22/03/2018 21:26

Love the poem, poetrycorner kind of sums it up! Grin

Pleasebeafleabite · 22/03/2018 21:27

In a week when the latest Gender Pay Gap publications have revealed some jaw dropping discrepancies there’s not even one thread in this on the first page of feminist chat

I think there may some loss of perspective going on

CadyHeron · 22/03/2018 21:28

In a week when the latest Gender Pay Gap publications have revealed some jaw dropping discrepancies there’s not even one thread in this on the first page of feminist chat

So start a thread then?

MrsJoshDun · 22/03/2018 21:28

And we haven’t even discussed the sporting issues here.

When a member of the New Zealand female weightlifting team is actually a man. Robbing a woman of her place on the team and coming second or maybe third in the world championships.

Which meant a GB female weightlifter dropped out the world top 8 and then lost her team gb funding which had enabled her to train full time.

Or the man who is playing Aussie rules football in a female team when significantly bigger, heavier than the women he’s playing against and has injured female players.

Or the Iranian women’s football team who are nearly all men.

PositivelyPERF · 22/03/2018 21:28

there’s not even one thread in this on the first page of feminist chat

So why haven’t you started one?

Djnoun · 22/03/2018 21:29

That Buzzfeed article is nothing to do with people thinking that lesbians aren't nice if they don't want to have sex with someone who is trans. It's about someone who is trans asking others to consider them as a sexual partner without prejudice.

It is actually a very scary and challenging experience finding a sexual partner if you are trans. Asking people to get to know you as a person before they reject you is not unreasonable.

I'm rejected out of hand as a sexual partner for being bisexual. I appreciate a little of their difficulty.

Fairenuff · 22/03/2018 21:29

The thing that I don't get is people who say it's transphobic to ask for women to be consulted.

If you think that transwomen are real women then you are also saying that you don't want them to be consulted.

Which seems pretty transphobic to me.

You can't have it both ways. Either transwomen are women and therefore included in the group that are petitioning for consultation OR they are not women and petitioning for consultation is anti trans.

Which is it OP?

AskBasil · 22/03/2018 21:29

You notice Riley Dennis doesn't tell heterosexual males that they're transphobes if they don't want to sleep with women with dicks.

Harrumph.

HadronCollider · 22/03/2018 21:31

Brilliant poem poetrycornerSmile

treaclesoda · 22/03/2018 21:32

In a week when the latest Gender Pay Gap publications have revealed some jaw dropping discrepancies there’s not even one thread in this on the first page of feminist chat

Well, that's relevant to this discussion too. I work in a small organisation and one of the most highly paid members of staff, who has spent 30 years building up his career as a man, is now classed as a woman.

That hugely distorts the pay statistics because he has never had to face the difficulties that female staff have faced. No maternity leave, no perceived unreliability due to having children.

MissBeehiving · 22/03/2018 21:32

I can’t understand that if really believed you were “born in the wrong body” and “felt like a woman” and that being in the wrong body caused you such distress, why would you retain your male genitalia as the vast majority of trans women do?

maxthemartian · 22/03/2018 21:32

@PoetryCorner you are awesome Grin

treaclesoda · 22/03/2018 21:33

That should say 'IF I work in a small organisation'. Or if anyone works in a small organisation.

EenaMinaMoe · 22/03/2018 21:33

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DN4GeekinDerby · 22/03/2018 21:33

Trans people are not a culture. Trans is an umbrella term for several different groups many of which don't agree or want to be with each other but somehow have. Part of the issue is that the difficulty in discussing the perverts and risks such without hitting into Stonewall's definition of trans.

Seriously, Stonewall defines trans as "an umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth. Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) Transgender, Transsexual, Gender-queer (GQ), Gender-fluid, Non-binary, Gender-variant, Crossdresser, Genderless, Agender, Nongender, Third gender, Two-spirit, Bi-gender, Trans man, Trans woman,Trans masculine, Trans feminine and Neutrois." I'm sure most can see why some of those might have an issue with being associated with each other. It's pretty weird and uncomfortable to have Two-Spirit alongside crossdressers. Most people are uncomfortable with some aspect of the gender associated with their sex. It's a very unclear term right now.

And then we have the other people with gender dysphoria, which used to be defining factor of being trans, being told mostly by people without dysphoria both that we need to identify as trans or we're harming the cause and trans people by not being out and proud and we also can't be trans and discuss being dysphoric or we're harming the cause and trans people by associating them with a mental illness. We're damned if we and damned if we don't and it's a great mindfuckery.

I grew up in the Bible Belt of the US - the kind of place that the year I left had a KKK rally - and yes, racist and sexist and homophobic people question themselves when pushed sometimes. If they didn't, there wouldn't be any progress at all. People change, none of us born bastions of ethics, it's an ongoing effort. I've changed my mind a lot in my life. There are sorry groups at many US Prides full of (some formerly, some currently) religious people who used to say horrible stuff who stand between us and the still hateful people. They were at my first Pride and it was nice. I've had far more issues with the "left" who think they're always the better people and getting them to consider whether they could be wrong. I do wonder if the people who have sent me rape and death threats ever wonder if they're wrong. Only one person to suicide bait me has ever apologized and that was many years ago. I still like to think so, I don't think being a female dysphoric person who openly talks about it and wanting female to signify my body no matter how I feel or identify is such a horrible thing but I guess I could be wrong.

MyLittleVespa · 22/03/2018 21:34

PoetryCorner Gin