To ask my son to move out when he turns 18?

[RibCageEngage]

My eldest son is 19 and is moving out in July. Part of the reason he's doing so is his younger brother who persistently steals off him, nags him for money/e-liquid/bus fare money and breaks his stuff when he has a temper tantrum.

DS2 is 17 and is a nightmare to live with. He's constantly stealing from us meaning we have to hide everything, I can't leave money around or anything that he wants as he'll just take it. I even have to hide the protein bars I buy as he just eats them all. He's not working or in college, he's done nothing since leaving school. He's recently started on what was meant to be a full time traineeship which has become a one morning a week session. This means he's hanging around the house 24/7. It's exhausting. He's constantly nagging for stuff, bus fare money (I bought him a bus card last week and he lost it meaning I'd wasted £15). "What's for dinner?" "What can I have for breakfast?" "What can I have to drink?" "Do you have any e-liquid?" Etc etc ... it's like looking after a toddler.

He had a job at McDonald's and was fired after a month for gross misconduct as he just didn't turn up for shifts.

He goes out on an evening and doesn't come home until gone midnight. He's meant to be home by 11, partly because of his drug usage but also because DH and I both work and we need to get to bed on a night and can't trust him to lock up so end up sitting up waiting for him. I'm exhausted.

He was recently arrested for assault against his brother. Last time we went away we came home to holes in the wall and he'd deliberately thrown a prosecco bottle at the floor damaging the floor tiles DH had just laid.

DH and I argue over him constantly. He doesn't respect us or our house and I desperately want him to live somewhere else. As much as I love him, I feel he's ruining my life. My home is an unhappy and tense one because of him.

WIBU to tell him that once he's 18 he needs to make alternative living arrangements?

He probably did lose it.

“Want some smack?”
“Yeah, here’s a bus pass.”

I do know what you’re saying but it is very, very cold.

How long is op and the rest of her family expected to put up with a violent drug addict because “where will he go?” ?
Her son is practically an adult, he is choosing to abuse his family, he is choosing to be a horrible person, no doubt if he gets a partner he will abuse that person too.
Some people are just bad eggs.

No one can answer that.

Ultimately, none of the situations are particularly palatable. I would probably lock things away and try as far as possible to keep him with me but I am not the OP and it’s impossible to state definitively one thing is right or wrong.

He seems very angry. Is he resentful of anyone in the family home?
To smash tiles that your DH has just laid seems like an act of revenge. ( in his head)

I'm dreading the possibility of my DD1 ending up like this. She's got Attachment Disorder and she had a head injury whilst a baby in foster care (she came to us at age 1) which has left her with sight and hearing problems. She's going to be 9 next week and she has violent meltdowns, where she hits, kicks, stamps on my feet or throws things. She hurts DD2 (6) as well. And she's now started taking money out of my purse, or just helps herself to things in our room, or the room where our 19 year old French au pair is staying.

Getting help is so hard. We've been waiting for therapy for a long time. We're getting no help from the school because she behaves beautifully there, although she struggles to make friends. She's also not 2 years behind so doesn't qualify for an ECHP. It's a constant fight.

I'm so sorry, OP, it sounds awful what you're dealing with. It's the same behaviour I see in DD1 but from a near adult man. I can't advise, but I would say you need to get him help with his drug use. My brother was like that as a teenager and he now has long-term MH issues, and that is something that cannabis use can lead to. (Although it often doesn't so don't assume the worst.)

Your DS2 is a really angry guy. My opinion is that while he is still in contact with you as parents he needs some kind of psychological intervention for his self medication and anger. If it fails, it fails but at least you know you tried. Once he's gone for good, any family intervention will be really hard or impossible if he's of no fixed address. If you and your nerves and sanity can bear it, it seems like a last chance saloon!

You made him, you have an obligation to set him straight. Kicking him out may achieve that or it might not. It’s better than nothing though.

Sorry, you mentioned drug use? Surely you would be better off sending him to rehab while he is still a minor and you still can?

I've written about this before but I kicked my son out a week before his 18th birthday.

Single mum - just me and two teenagers. He had become unbearable, his younger sister was just taking her GCSE's at the time and the turmoil at home was affecting her badly. He wouldn't go to college - dropped out three times, lied all the time, was rude, foul tempered, violent (not to us but holes in doors, breaking things - all of that) and I had a load of stuff going on myself at the time - work issues, financial issues, going through menopause, my mum being diagnosed with Alzheimer's .... and he made our lives a living hell.

He stayed on a friend's sofa for a while, and then a few weeks later I had him in tears on the phone begging to come home. It was the hardest thing ever had to do to say no, he couldn't come back until I had real proof of change. It was so hard and I admit I felt so guilty and depressed for several month and missed him terribly ... but I knew I couldn't have him back.

He lived away for nearly two years, ended up lodging with a friend's family and in that time he worked part-time and got himself through college and finished his 'A' levels. He moved back home two years later - a different person.

He went on to do a degree, graduated last year and is now back living at home. He's polite, respectful, pays his way and is hugely appreciative of me. We have a great relationship. He also tells me that kicking him out was the best thing I could have done and he doesn't blame me one bit.

Do it. For yourself and for your son.

YANBU give him some warning first obv so he has a chance to sort himself out. Hopefully the real world will be the making of him. Worth a shot anyway as its clearly going badly with him at home.
As long as you are still there for him to come to for advice and support along the way, I think its a very god idea to get him thinking about his own life and future by having to support himself.

Comments such as *

Rehab doesn't work unless the drug user wants to change Outy (and sometimes not even then). If it could be forced on people in a way that works, then we'd not have a population of drug addicts now would we?

I also echo the experiences of parents, who’ve let their abusive kids stay. Dhs cousin is about 40. He had a difficult childhood, his father has some kind of undiagnosed ocd? (eg he knew if his wife had used the phone as it wasn’t quite in the right place) along with being violent etc and beat his mother up. His mother over compensated to such a degree that he is incapable of looking after himself, holding a job down and being a functioning member of society. Years back, I got dh to pull a few strings and got him a warehouse job. He lasted 3.5 weeks and supposedly had some kind of mental breakdown and as a result he then went to a sort of respite centre for 2 weeks (not in UK). He was and still is a drug and alcohol abuser. He spent those 2 weeks smoking marijuana and on release refused to engage with the psychiatrist he saw thereafter for 10 mins once a month.

The cousin ended up going to prison for assaulting his father, which led to his parents divorce as the mother saw it as a complete betrayal. Since then, he persuaded his mother to steal around 20k from her mother as she had POA thus access to the money. He is now violent to his mother and she has switched one abuser for another. He’s now burnt through the money she made from the sale of the house from the divorce and she has called us a couple of times asking to lend money. We declined. The last contact was a couple of years ago when he called at about 1/2am off his trolley. Then he called back about 2 weeks later with no memory of the first call.

This life story is why op needs to kick her kid out. To give him a chance of perhaps getting his act together and becoming a functioning member of society.

I’m sorry you’re going through such a hard time.

Rehab would be good if he actually wanted to get off drugs.
I would think he has a group he hangs out with who are into drugs so trying to get him clean in the same environment is not going to happen. All throwing him out will succeed in is saying no rules apply to him and with no money who knows where or what he will do.

I am with others in that he needs almost a boot camp 24 hour supervision away from the area and then a job or something that keeps him away from falling back into his old ways until he has matured or found a better direction for his energies.

Sorry, you're in this situation. I've had similar with my ds. As did my dm with my db.
If there is any help you can access - for yourself as well as your son, please do.

The bad news is that if he doesn't want to leave home, I don't think you can make him. That was what I found out when I was looking into it in our case.

The good news is that in many cases this is only a phase, though it is a hellish one and can go on for years. My ds has finally moved out and our relationship is improving.

My db after a few wasted years is now a responsible adult and lovely person with teenage dc of his own.

I expected both my sons to be making plans to move out at 18, I wanted my freedom back after 21 years of parenting and financing other people.(We did support both of them financially through uni though) Please don't think you are being harsh in asking him to get his act together and move out at 18, for me that would be the norm. I'd have either of mine back short term if they had problems or were saving hard for a house but when you are adult I feel it is more healthy to have your own space.

@Fontella
That's a really moving story you told of tough love, glad of your very happy ending! Good luck OP whatever you decide.

People that are saying where will he go? do you think OP should put up with it just because the other option is kicking him out on the streets? He’s using drugs, steeling, not holding down a job or any form of education, kicking him out will be a big wake up call. Chances are he won’t change by you threatening to kick him out, chances are he will end up on the streets, maybe taking worse drugs and maybe end up in prison if he gets caught steeling but that’s not your responsibility, he’s old enough to make his own choices and he has to learn from his own mistakes. You can be there to support him emotionally but not financially and not to provide him with someone to live. He needs to work things out for himself.

I’d use the broken record technique

Every time he asked for anything have a stock standard answer that becomes a mantra

You want X then get a job and pay for it
You want Y then go get a job and pay for it

Don’t be drawn into a discussion- that’s his issue

I wouldnt wait. Ultimatum to him either change your ways or go now. How much do you give into him. I assume you make his dinner and give him money or he wouldnt keep asking. Offer to take him doctors he needs drug and anger counselling.

I feel like it's kinda cold to kick him out. Just spoke to dp about this and he basically said if our children were on drugs, we would lock them into the bathroom and full on cold turkey them and get them the proper help they need.
Whilst he's still in your care at 17, you need to do something and you need the support behind you to help you and dp to help him. I've no doubt it's terrifying etc. But the more you give in OP the more he knows it's okay to behave this way. But we on here don't know the full story but I think it's your duty as a mother no matter how fed up you are and dp is to act now for your own child and sort this out between you all.
An if that doesn't work. At least you damn well tried for your child.

Nobody should have to share their home with someone who is physically abusive towards them whether they are your child, partner or parent.

The pp who asked what if he ends up dead in a ditch, my question is what if he had killed his brother when he assaulted him? He's a danger to everyone around him when he's out of control. Of course you should kick him out and you should have done it when he was arrested.

He may get more assistance if you do it now instead of waiting until he's 18. Hopefully it'll help turn him around but be prepared that it may not, at least in the short term.

With regards to assistance I would say it depends in your authority.
Ours is very good with children's services but not so great with with adult prob is. Our neighbouring authority is the exact opposite. So much so that I know loads of families ( through my work ) that have moved house by less than a mile once their child was approaching 18 to be in a different catchment area. I can't say I blame them.

So if they where taking e at clubs at the weekends or smoking hash at a friend's house you'd lock them in the bathroom?

For how long?
What would you do next?
What is this "help" of which you speak? How would you make them engage with it?
Do they stay in the bathroom until they are all better?
What do you do if they start up again when you let them out?
Or say to the courts when you are charged with unlawful imprisonment?