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AIBU?

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to ask what *alternatives* to self ID you think would work for trans people and the rest of society?

402 replies

yetanothertranswoman · 18/03/2018 09:13

If you are against self if, what would you like to have instead as a system that allows trans people to live their lives the best they can whilst ensuring that potential issues highlighted by self ID are minimised.

For context - I am trans. I've had HRT and surgery. It took a long time to get to surgery as the NHS appointment system takes its time. I had to attend a psychiatrist appointment even before being referred to the NHS clinics. Then I was able to get a letter from the GP to allow me to alter my 'identifiers' on my passport and driving license.

At that point I told work and was given protection under the Equality Act so I couldn't face discrimination due to being trans at work.

I got my diagnosis of transexualism after my 3rd session with the NHS psychiatrist.

I got my GRC after my surgery - it hasn't really meant much to me in real life getting this.

I am not in favour of self ID - and this thread is not about self ID. I was just wondering what people think of the current system and if they can see any alternatives - as the definition of trans varies wildly.

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 18/03/2018 13:55

I'm also not convinced about the Sinn Fein analogy; as far as I'm aware not even the most full-on TERFs have ever committed violence against transpeople or encouraged it.

It's a pretty transparent attempt to smear radical feminists.

okMaybeIAmATERF · 18/03/2018 13:57

That's an act, not a situation. Situation, please. (See my post of 12:03 for detail.)

Ereshkigal · 18/03/2018 14:02

In my unique non hive mind opinion, the legal protections required could be dealt with by the Equality Act. There is no need to pretend that people can change sex.

noeffingidea · 18/03/2018 14:02

I would say, keep the GRA as it stands now. If you want to be treated on a woman's ward, use women's facilities, etc, then you have to have the paperwork to prove your status.
Exception being sex offenders. If you are convicted of sexual offences against women and children you should not be able to legally change gender.

BeyondDeadlySiren · 18/03/2018 14:02

You'd think the "anti TERF" media would have reported all of the bombings by WNTT/Venice.
Weird that they haven't... Hmm 🙄

Ereshkigal · 18/03/2018 14:03

Also the Labour Party members thrown out for "threats of violence". Who is this please?

LostArt · 18/03/2018 14:05

"Exception being sex offenders. If you are convicted of sexual offences against women and children you should not be able to legally change gender."

What do you think should happen if they are guilty of a sexual offence after GRC? I'm not being argumentative, just curious.

Stillscreaming · 18/03/2018 14:06

I'm also not convinced about the Sinn Fein analogy; as far as I'm aware not even the most full-on TERFs have ever committed violence against transpeople or encouraged it.

At the HoC meeting a standing ovation was given to a women a who has been suspended for the Labour Party for threatening trans women with violence, a woman who has been suspended from the Labour Party for harassment and a woman who has been questioned under caution for malicious communication as a hate crime, who's file is currently with the CPS. All of those women were given standing ovations.

If you want examples of more extreme behaviour from people of the same view but not at that meeting, Google Cathy Brennan.

Before you throw, 'TRAs do it too' at me, indeed they do. There has been totally unacceptable behaviour on both sides of this argument and I'm not going to defend it. I think that anyone who acts outside the law, should be punished with the full force of the law. I would not stand up and applause anyone who had committed any acts of violence or harassment.

okMaybeIAmATERF · 18/03/2018 14:06

I'm another who missed news of any LP members thrown out for threats of violence, contrary to "we both know". Link please.

Stillscreaming · 18/03/2018 14:09

Also the Labour Party members thrown out for "threats of violence". Who is this please?

You keep asking for names but, as I suspect you know, if I supply names, the thread will be taken down. The information you are asking for is freely available to anyone who what to look for it.

okMaybeIAmATERF · 18/03/2018 14:11

Huh?

okMaybeIAmATERF · 18/03/2018 14:13

Do you mean that if you posted the name, your implied accusation would be libellous? I can't quite think what else you can mean; but if that's what you mean, the accusation wouldn't be convincing of anything anyway.

Stillscreaming · 18/03/2018 14:14

Also we don't treat anorexics by giving the an op or hormones to stay skinny or by helping them to control their food intake.

'We' don't collectively treat anorexics, doctors treat anorexics with Evidence Based Medicine, that has been proved to be the effective and suitable. That's the way it should be. No medical treatment should be given on the basis of what someone, who isn't a doctor, 'thinks'.

BeyondDeadlySiren · 18/03/2018 14:15

@JenniferJames and @DrRadfem are both here, and afaik are the only women suspended (though both since left) from the Labour Party. Neither for threatening violence.

So crack on, no problem with naming individuals as they are perfectly open on the subject :)

Lovesagin · 18/03/2018 14:18

Who has been suspended for threatening violence?

Stillscreaming · 18/03/2018 14:19

Do you mean that if you posted the name, your implied accusation would be libellous?

A statement doesn't need to be libellous to be removed from MN, it just needs to be a statement that MNHQ don't want to have to go to the bother of proving is true.

I'm sure you can think of examples where this has happened before.

Ereshkigal · 18/03/2018 14:21

I'm very amused by the flailings of certain posters on this thread. Who I won't name Grin

Lovesagin · 18/03/2018 14:22

Ok I've googled a very simple "labour suspended violence transgender" and there are literally no news items about someone being suspended for threats of violence.

Testingnamechange1 · 18/03/2018 14:26

Actually, both Jennifer James’ and Venice Allen’s suspension hearings were linked to on here. Full recordings of the whole thing. No threats of violence by them were brought up in the hearing.

BeyondDeadlySiren · 18/03/2018 14:26

So what if mn remove it - the people who are reading now would still be able to read your (totally not libellous) post.

There's no punishment for having one post deleted. Unless you have form?

IrenetheQuaint · 18/03/2018 14:27

If you're aware of someone who has been publically named for being thrown out of the Labour Party threatening violence against/harrassing transwomen then name them here too, or add a link.

Stillscreaming · 18/03/2018 14:29

Here's a video of former Labour Party member, Linda Bellos, making allusions to violence at at similar meeting:

vimeo.com/247740942

okMaybeIAmATERF · 18/03/2018 14:34

Carefully edited so that we don't hear who "they" are, so I don't for a moment believe that "they" are "transpeople" as opposed to hypothetical transpeople undertaking particular objectionable activities at that moment. Still, she shouldn't have said that and I'm happy to condemn it. Now, where were we?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/03/2018 14:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 18/03/2018 14:41

I am going to report my post...

I dont want anyone to think im accusing her of being kicked out of the labour party for threatening violence

As im not as i cant see any evidence