Trans male now promoting periods.

[Eliza9917]

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/period-campaign-transgender-male-model-kenny-jones-face-pink-parcel-im-on-stigma-a8257131.html

'A transgender male model has been announced as the face of a new campaign aiming to challenge the stigma around periods.'

Just why?

But you responded to a post of mine, where I was talking about pubescent girls. Saying that if they see that there is an option to halt the puberty / breast growth by binding / puberty blockers, then they might well take it, seeing as in the past they have taken quite extreme measures in order to do this.

So why bother replying by saying that breast binding is nothing new and girls have always stopped their periods, when you're in fact talking about girls who are much older / in Elizabethan times?

It makes literally no sense as a reply to my post.

So, let's try again.

I say - when I was growing up, many girls wanted to slow / stop / disguise puberty, breasts in particular were "problematic" - and they did this by starving themselves and buying baggy clothes.

Now, they see that they can achieve this with hormone blockers and binders. Is it any wonder that girls are the fastest growing group at gender ID clinics and why is no-one making this link?

What do you make of that then? If you understand what I am talking about more clearly, hopefully.

My point was the now bit. As in 'Now, they see that they can achieve this with hormone blockers and binders'. I had lots of friends who started taking the pill soon after starting their periods and used it to prevent their periods. Conversely, I wasn't aware of anyone who was starving themselves specifically to halt/delay puberty. The people I knew who starved themselves growing up were doing it to be thinner. That doesn't mean that I don't believe you though - obviously we moved in different circles.

I do think there is a worrying trend toward diagnosing GNC children as trans. However, I don't think that seeing an advert with a transman in it is going to make non-trans girls rush out to get diagnosed as trans, since you don't have to be a man to use hormones to prevent periods. Whether you believe me or not, I know lots of people who use or have used contraceptive pills to delay/prevent their periods.

So you maintain that back in the day, and now (when girls are starting puberty younger) it's easy to obtain the pill around puberty.

My DD just started hers, she's 10, no way would she be able to get hold of the pill.

I started at 11 and many friends at 12, again, the pill was not widely available to children that age, it just wasn't.

You seem to be talking about older children which is pointless, this conevrsation is abotu girls around puberty when their bodies start changing. Breasts start growing up to a year before periods start.

And it's not just about stopping periods - I'm not even sure why you're focussing on that. it's about stopping the body developing full stop - putting the brakes on puberty, stopping the breasts growing. The pill will not do that, puberty blockers will. THAT is very very appealing. Easy.

I really don't know how I can make this clearer.

Puberty is a very difficult time for a lot of girls as their bodies start changing in ways that can feel alien, men start to "take notice" wich can be unsettling and scary, it means "growing up" and girls have seen all teh things that it means to be a grown up woman in our society via the media and generally it can be scary.

Many girls have reacted to that in the past by trying to slow down / stop puberty, and / or hide their developing bodies from the world. The methods employed were restricting eating and / or baggy clothes.

Many girls have a very unhappy relationship with their bodies, with self esteem etc around puberty

There is now the possibility which is fairly mainstream (highly present in media) that puberty can be STOPPED, breasts, hips, spots, periods, the whole lot, with blockers. And the most visible aspect (breasts) can be really thoroughly disguised.

I believe that many of the girls who would have starved themselves etc 30 years ago will be pretty tempted by this.

The fact is that the fastest growing group in gender ID clinics is girls, which seems to support that there is something going on, that seems fairly obvious to a lot of women, but the TRAs are adamant must NOT be looked into.

Is it appealing to stop puberty though? I can see why people who feel (rightly or wrongly) that they were born in the wrong body would want to halt puberty but are you saying that there are loads of non-trans girls out there who, rather than wearing baggy jumpers as their breasts develop actually want to stop puberty altogether and will falsely claim that they identify as trans to get puberty blockers?

I mean if their bodies have already started to change, and they go on blockers, they can disguise any breast growth that has started.

Weird - but I do think that men should be more involved in understanding what periods are about and should learn about this from a very young age.

The fact is that the fastest growing group in gender ID clinics is girls, which seems to support that there is something going on

Sure, but I think the rampant misogyny and homophobia plays a huge part in this.

Im sure the marketing monkeys think they're terribly clever with this one.

They're not, it's an own goal because all it does is reminds us that all the hastags in the world won't change your sex. Vagina? Periods? You're a woman. Doesn't matter about the feelz. Penis? You're a man. Doesn't matter about the dress and lipstick.

"Is it appealing to stop puberty though"

• For lots of girls, yes.

"are you saying that there are loads of non-trans girls out there who, rather than wearing baggy jumpers as their breasts develop actually want to stop puberty altogether "

• And prepared to starve themselves to the point where their periods stop? Yes

" falsely claim that they identify as trans to get puberty blockers"

• There is advice all over sites frequented by children / teens around what to tell the doctor to get blockers, and what to say to your parents to get them to take you to the doc in the first place

You are right our experiences are very different and I would be extremely interested to know where in the UK in the 80s it was possible for 12 yo to get the pill so easily that most of your friends were on it. I mean sure some girls don't start periods til 14 but 12 was average when I was young (I was 11) and it's even younger now.

I am baffled by the advert: what, exactly, is the message that the advertiser is trying to send? That trans men aren't men but women? That women need men to reassure them that it's ok to menstruate?

Or is it telling trans men that it's acceptable to menstruate? That's such a niche population.

Gotta love advertising: putting the MEN into menstruation.

I have read that girls who are sexually abused will often try to disguise their bodies / get rid of the "woman-ness" by starving themselves etc to make themselves less "attractive" to abusers.

So there's one segment right there.

No-one seems to be interested.

The blind acceptance that the ONLY reason a girl would want puberty blockers is because she is really a boy inside is naive.

Although many girls might look at boys and subconsciosuly think, it looks way better to be like that. Internalsied misogyny is hardly uncommon.

"are you saying that there are loads of non-trans girls out there who, rather than wearing baggy jumpers as their breasts develop actually want to stop puberty altogether "

You miss the point again. It's not about a single body part or just "while they are developing". It's about stopping the whole process full stop, not wanting to continue maturing sexually. And there are many reasons for that which mainly stem from how our society looks at girls once their bodies are noticeably not childlike any more.

Re the 'dead naming' paradox, presumably the 'logic' is that - in this brave new world - just as penises can now be female, abracadabra: male menstruation.

(Even though Kenny doesn't any more.)

Only this week a FB friend mentioned mooncups and how a male colleague googled them, and said he was 'revolted and scared' by periods. This, from an actual grown man.

I'm prepared to accept that this may be an advertising gimmick, however, if it normalises and gets the discussion going about the reality experienced by 51% of the population for 40 years of its life, I'm willing to go with it for a while. Personally, I'm utterly hacked off with the idea of menstrual blood being portrayed as blue and coming out of a test tube.

So women menstruating has been taboo in the media since the dawn of tv advertising.

But if we pretend men get periods it'll make it all right? How sexist.

People often joke that if men had periods / gave birth etc there would be awards and one-upping conversations and celebrating and all sorts of things and it would be important men's business...

This seems to show that it's not entirely a joke...

Re the 'dead naming' paradox, presumably the 'logic' is that - in this brave new world - just as penises can now be female, abracadabra: male menstruation.

I see what you’re saying, but (some) TIMs currently have ‘lady dicks’ (apparently 🙄). It isn’t tolerated to ascertain that a penis was an element of their former life.

We have to acknowledge the lady dick is in the present. To not do so is transphobic.

Whereas Kenny doesn’t have periods anymore. Hasn’t had them for years. In fact, only has them for a few years to begin with.

We have to overlook that the periods aren’t in the present. To not do so is transphobic.

The hypocrisy is fucking breathtaking and women are being (have been?) thrown under a bus.

I need to say as a 28yo woman, reading through these comments, I had absolutely no access to getting the pill when I first started my periods (age 12) and doctors would never recommend me taking it either, it was solely used for girls who suffered with irregular and heavy periods (i suffered with migraines, extreme cramps & back pain - still do!) yet I wasn't on the pill. Then when girls were older they used it as birth control.
Most girls I know wanted to get their periods so that they could brag about it & say they were turning into women now. Then you could have the pleasure of moaning about how annoying they are & somehow bond over this! We still do :)
The only time I wanted to delay my periods was when I knew it would be a nuisance to have them as I had somewhere to go etc or I had a boyfriend & it didn't suit me to have them seeing my bf.
I suffered with eating disorders when I was younger which did sometimes delay and make my period become weaker BUT this was never because I didn't want to be a woman. I love being a woman, and girly!
I think if a trans is still having periods then yes he can advertise, but I think if he isn't then no he shouldn't. I do think women through the menopause should be able to advertise it as generally they don't want their periods to stop - they just have! It's a natural process.
On another note - I don't understand the dead naming thing, why is it not okay to refer to who you were for a greater period of your life? It's part of you. But, then I wouldn't understand that completely as I am not able to identify with wanting to change my gender.
I do fully appreciate that some people need to trans to become who they feel they are, I think that's totally acceptable because everyone should be free to feel comfortable in their own skin, and I'm happy our society has changed and it's becoming more accepting of peoples diversity.
I also think it's important for men to fight for womens rights too. I don't understand what is wrong with that.

I... I got nothing.

Why would he want to advertise women's products?

Most trans people I know what far away from there old lives a possible.

I do think women through the menopause should be able to advertise it as generally they don't want their periods to stop - they just have! It's a natural process

Every woman is different and a huge number of us are delighted to be finished with menstruation. We just have to resist the perception that we're shrivelled up old hags. Give PinkParcel time and they'll be offering a monthly subscription box for this.

Surely the whole suject of periods is transphobic. TIM's want them and TIF's want rid, so natal women who just get on with it are not allowed to mention it in case it offends the TIMs TIFs.

So is Kenny themselves transphobic?

As an aside if we are now to treat Kenny as a man then surely this counts as men mansplaining periods to us and they can get to fuck.

Talking about periods! Why do they need to be spoken about? I don't get it.... they happen it's nature.... it's natural.... or is this something that a trans person has never spoken about before?

I don't jump around when I'm bleeding shouting it from the hill top and to be honest I don't want to hear about it from anyone else 😂

Well lots of reasons

Telling children about it
Trying to reduce embarrassment when it's something that most of us do
What is "normal" and when to see a doc etc
Linked into the reducing embarassment - not avoiding seeking help if things are wrong
having the language to talk about it
Also with things like girls not going to school because they can't get hold of things to manage it, again, this sort of thing was never known because it was never spoken about

And of course in some countries in the world there are much worse things - but they would NEVER have had a charity openly advertising to help girls around menstruation related issues in say the 1980s. I tihnk this drive to talk about it is good.

I'm not keen on this brand though and I've said what I think about this particular campaign.