Who is being unreasonable - joint finances

[namechange59295]

Namechanged for this but regular poster.

Please help me work out whether I am being unreasonable, or whether my husband is being unreasonable (I think he is, obviously!).

I'll try to make his as succinct as possible. Been with my DH for 8 years, married for 18 months, DS1 is 7.5 months. DH bought the house we live in when we had been together for 2 years, large cash deposit, small mortgage. I moved in and paid a reduced rent until the mortgage was cleared (approx. 3 years). I have then lived there for free ever since. The justification for this which we both agreed to was that I had to move around an hour from my friends, family and work to allow him to continue to run his business, which would obviously benefit us both in the future. His friends, family and hobbies are on his doorstep (literally, we can see his parents house and the rugby field from our windows!). I hate the town we live in, but we plan to move out of town in the next couple of years and as I have made lots of friends in the wider area I am happy with this prospect, although ultimately I would prefer to move back to where I grew up and where my family are.

So, mortgage is paid off and we both have significant savings, however he has about 3 times what I have. I believe his ability to save has been partly facilitated by me because by moving to his area I have allowed our relationship to continue and him to pursue his professional desires. Of course he has also saved very hard and worked very hard for that money. I have explained this part of our financial situation not to be goady, but I don't want to drip feed and I do think this is relevant to my AIBU.

Since moving in together we have paid into a joint account for food, bills, council tax etc etc. Basically everything that's needed to keep the house running. I have just stopped receiving maternity pay but have been paying in as normal until now. Agreement is that I will stay at home with DS1 because my commute to work means I would work for about £25 per day once we have paid for childcare. We have always been of the understanding that we would both prefer for me to be at home with the children for a certain amount of time whilst they are young and that was a large part of the reason we have settled in DH's area. All discussed and agreed years ago.

I do all of the housework, so cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, food shopping, bins, recycling, night feeds etc. plus all those other little things like buying birthday presents, cards etc. He does bath and bed with DS 5 nights a week. He plays rugby twice a week and all day on a Saturday, with the occasional night out afterwards (not regular, say once every 2 months or so). He has a lie in at the weekend on both days while I get up with DS.

I have always said that I would prefer our savings to be held jointly, with a direct debit into an account for household stuff and then an equal allowance each for spending money. He has always said that he will just top up our existing joint account as needed. We are both relatively good with money so whilst I'm not really comfortable with this, in theory it should work as long as we are both reasonable.

With regards to our savings, we are both saving for a property investment, so in that sense our intentions for the savings are mutual. He obviously has a great deal more than I do at present, but my parents will be giving us a significant (approx £175k) sum to purchase said property when we find it so he will then benefit from my/their investment. Basically what I am trying to say is that we are on a fairly level playing field once all is taken into consideration.

Fast forward to today. We are looking after his parents dog for a few days while they are away. I took her for a run on the beach this morning and it was lovely down there so I bought a coffee in the cafe and sat outside for a bit longer. The coffee cost £1.50. DH has told me that I should take my own coffee in a flask because buying a coffee out is a waste of money. He says that if I was out for a walk with a friend and we went into the coffee shop that's fine because it's being sociable. I think that considering he disappears for 2 evenings a week plus most of Saturday week in week out (and there is a cost of say £20 a week for this) I should be allowed to buy a bloody coffee every now and then if I want one! I'm not one of these people who walks around with a costa permanently attached to my hand, I hardly ever buy drinks or food out. My social commitments are a buggy fitness group once or twice a week (£4 a time), baby sensory (£5 a week) and slimming world (£5 a week). I then go for a walk with a group of mums once a week and we have a coffee afterwards. This mornings coffee doesn't usually happen, it's only because I was down there with his parents dog and I just fancied a coffee because it was really nice there today. He is saying that if I had been with someone else it would have been fine because it's being sociable. I argued that if his hobby was cycling or running which he might do by himself I would still be happy for him to pursue it, it just so happens that he plays rugby and that is a team sport.

This next bit is the important bit.

He then said that he is spending his money when he does things, and I am spending our money. My argument is that all of the money is our money, including he money that my parents have promised me for the property purchase** whenever that happens.

I think this statement completely summarises his attitude towards me being a stay at home mum and whilst he is happy for me to do so, he is going to want me to account for every last penny I spend because as far as he is concerned, I am not the one who went out and earned it. I also think that this shows he does not value anything I do in the home and whilst I am happy to do it and appreciate that I am fortunate to be able to stay at home, I do not think that attitude is fair.

Well done if you are still reading - I am happy to be told I am unreasonable if I am and in which case I need to start grovelling after the argument we've just had. If I am not being unreasonable and he is being financially controlling, then I am just disappointed in myself for being so stupid as to think we were on the same wavelength.

Thank you.

Bastardkitty no it wouldn't as it was an asset before marriage. I have just looked up if your marriage was to break down tomorrow you have no claim on the property only tenancy rights.

As it is in his name and was pretty much owned outright BEFORE marriage. It's is not a matrimonial home.

In which case it makes even more sense to sell it to fund the purchase of the next property.

I should have added - I've never ever had a comment from DH about how I've spent money. Partly the dynamic is that he's much more likely to spend (and much keener on getting a coffee!) than me. But when we've had frugal periods, although I'm usually the one to raise the need to tighten up, he's absolutely joint in going through the budget and we sort together what we need to do.

I have in the past mentioned something I'd thought of doing / buying but thought was a bit extravagant. His general response is to tell me to go for it, or occasionally he's given it to me as a gift shortly after.

Attitude is everything.

I agree @namechange59295

He has NOT proved himself trustworthy in financial matters. Everything he says sort of seems to say 'ours' but it feels like he wants to hedge his bets in his favour.

My 'gut' feeling is that he has no intention of changing long term (sorry) and that he hopes to 'soothe' you with some minimal change and then tire you out with excuses and 'what ifs' until you just give up or cave in on the rest of it.

I mean, he's had it all his way up til now, hasn't he? You live where he wants, you live by his rules (to an extent), and he gets to do whatever the hell he wants. TBH if I had it that much my way with my DH, I'd be loathe to give it up too, wouldn't you?

I've always worked and been financially self-supporting so DH and I were always on an equal footing and we both knew it so neither of us had to feel 'unequal'. But not a men treat their SAHM wives badly. My BiL always referred to things as 'ours' and he never questioned my sister's expenses or her decisions as far as the family went. Her 'give' was that they had to move where he could further his career, and at times she wasn't real happy about it, but she figured that was her 'end' of the deal. When he retired he told her she got to pick wherever she wanted for them to retire to after him 'dragging her around the country all those years'.

I do think you can make things work. But your DH will need to be 100% convinced that you really mean business!

No no no no no. He's telling you what he thinks you want to hear and you are so desperate you want to believe it.

As expat said, this is someone that won't even give you a lie in.

Are you still going to go back to work with this new arrangement?

Actions speak louder than words op. He needs to prove it to you before you even think of moving and investing your parents money.

Bluelady. I think it's unlikely this lady's husband will do that, what's in it for him? Only it's the decent thing to do.

I know. She really shouldn't enable it though. I'm glad we've opened your eyes a bit, OP. Please don't let him rob you by renting your current home. It would mean he could shaft you royally.

He has suggested joint saving and current account going forwards. Our respective savings stay as they are at present (£85k in 'his', £30k in 'mine'). His justification being that when we find a house the £85k and the £30k will go into paying for that, plus my £175k and anything we save jointly.

Obviously this means I have paid in more than him, but assuming we are a reasonable married couple (which I appreciate some of you might think we aren't for this tread, but for the purpose of the argument let's put that to one side), to me that is what married couples do.

Ahhhh.... so it's 'his' £85k and your £35k ... right up until you 'inherit' £175k, and then it 'shared'. Righto then.

Tell him, no. You will match his £85k savings towards the new property purchase. You will be keeping the £125k 'leftover' of 'your' money in your own savings account, since he has made his feelings on the matter of money very clear.

Or if you can't bring yourself to do that and you're not ready to call it quits on the marriage, tell you parents you only want £50k right now, and to keep the other £125 for you until you figure out what's going on in your marriage.

I would want to see proof of the 85k savings before I invested any money. Secondly, I agree that you need some actions from him about sharing money. Thirdly, go back to work and he pays half the child care. There needs to be action on both sides, not just talk !

It all seems such a mess so I'm going to arrange a meeting with a financial advisor alone to see where is stand.

I also like the suggestion of seeing a divorce lawyer - not because I want to get divorced at all but to find out my legal rights to assets should this marriage go tits up.

I think I've got a long road ahead of me but I do think I've planted a seed of thought in my husband's head. He is basically expecting me to give up all my earning potential and put my trust in him to give me security whilst he puts no trust in me whatsoever.

A lawyer should be your first port of call. You may well be entitled in a divorce to half of what the house has gone up in value since you married, but that's it. What Financial advisors really just advise you on where to put your money for the best return.

I think if the savings were largely pre children I could handle that. My base requirements would be Joint accoutns and savings ongoing , add you to the deeds of current house (given what others say re marital asset) , you get a job and you see the right attitude from him re sharing the load, and of course that you get a lie in. That one would be this weekend , non negotiable for me! All these would need to happen before any house move starts getting planned.

So tomorrow morning op just stay in bed, kick him and say your turn darling. If you do enough parenting hours today I authorise you to pay a £1.50 for a coffee.

Not read thread op. I would probably have taken a flask because I am xaurious about spending. But if I'd wanted to buy a coffee I'd have bloody well have bought one with knobs on. If DH had had a problem I'd have vivwn him the evils.

We pack flasks for days out. We are quite well off and 20 years along your journey. If I'd wanted to buy a coffee 20 yeara ago DH would have been ok with it.

Watch out for your £175k

timeisnotaline - yes! Tell him it's his turn to get up tomorrow morning OP, as when you're back at work it's only fair. If he does well, you might allow him to take the baby to Starbucks.

DH has always earned more than me. I've either been a SAHM or worked part time. All our earnings have always gone into the same joint account.
He inherited a few thousand from his father and the money was spent on a family holiday and some new furniture for the family home.
When he was made an offer he couldn't refuse and retired early, his lump sum paid off the mortgage of our jointly owned house. The rest went into joint investments.

When I inherited from my parents, we took advice from a financial adviser together and invested equal amounts of money in my name and in his name.

He's never complained about me spending money, even when I wasn't working. What's his is mine and what is mine is his. I trust him implicitly as he does me.

And he's always pulled his weight round the house and with the kids too, even when I wasn't working.I can't remember him ever having a lie in when the kids were little. But then I can't remember me having one either.

Sorry but I don't trust your husband an inch, otherwise he would be falling over himself to make everything equal. The house in joint names, equal amounts of savings, joint current account and all earnings including any bonuses, into the joint account.

Your husband needs to do a lot better, starting tomorrow. It's your turn for a lie in OP.

And I would be seeking advice from a divorce lawyer pretty quickly, especially about that house and the consequences for you if it is rented out. Look after yourself and take care.

It’s not about being back at work though - as a stay at home Mum you should get lie ins unless you’re children sleep 8pm till 9am every day. When ds was a baby I had wvery weekend lie in as dh didn’t help nights and ds didn’t really sleep, so lie ins on the weekend were my only chance to get more than 4-5 hours fragmented over the night.

OP I would insist on everything being 50/50 now. So your name in the deeds for your current home. The savings split 50/50 (after you’ve taken out the £10k you need for a car). Then everything going forward split 50/50, set such that you both have access to equal spending money.

It looks like you are both thinking your current home is his because he paid for most of it before you got married - but when you got married it was to share everything and build a family together. How can he expect you to stop working when he’s not prepared to treat you as an equal and share what he has with you - the woman loves and the mother of his child?

If all else fails, show him this thread!

Only read the first page but can I say that I really think this idea of keeping things separate then having a joint 'household' account is not a good idea. If you are married everything should be joint in my opinion. and I mean everything. It would never occur to my DH to complain that I haven't worked for years ( 2 disabled children) and that I shouldn't buy myself a coffee! He's only too pleased when I get a chance for a break and some time to myself. He earns the money and I spend it, works really well! Get a grip, both of you.

to me that is what married couples do.

Well, they also share savings, share the load around the house and don’t financially penalise each other for giving up work to bring up children.

Sounds promising... To he fair why or how he got this mind set is going to be require time to change and to be fair, if he loves you and your only now challenging this it will take time.

But don't forget this man was quibbling over 1.5. It is his actions and his mind set so..I wouldn't expect massive changes over night and yet if with one or two conversations he is so ready to be equal... Why the hell didn't he do this off his own back ie.. Being ready to change so quickly gives one idea he wasn't to entrenched in the first place?

I don't know how people who have children together can quibble over £1.50 (him not you clearly).

Good news re the joint accounts but I think he needs more of a mindset change and you need to monitor it.

Well done for having the balls to call him out, I know plenty of women who don't.

I hope it works out for you.

His plan seems unnecessarily complicated. It is very easy to convert a sole account to a joint one, just go into your bank with suitable ID and they can do it there and then. The advantage of a joint account is that if one party dies, the other retains access to it. Sole accounts are a nightmare if the account holder dies, the account can be frozen for many months.