To love the Mail and The Sun?

[YesItsADebate]

Because they are covering this and this and this? (No links to either paper, or dodgy links, just background info on a government website, Twitter and a Mumsnet thread).

The petition is one of the most important going for 51% of the UK population. I can’t believe that women are having to petition to get consulted, but that’s 2018 for you. If the Mail and the Sun are going to cover it so it gets more visibility then that’s a good thing, IMO.

5419. Creeping up

I assume The Sun hasn’t run anything yet?

The Sunday Times is now joining my ❤️ list on this particular issue.

As a card-carrying member of the Labour Party, this is messing with my head.

Lots of papers to buy this Sunday then !!
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

Please do sign the petition to encourage women's views to be heard on potential problems with self ID of gender.

For those unaware. We do not wish potential law saying we are unable to demand female only services when requested (ie smear test) and ability to say we not comfortable when in vulnerable situations around males etc - Just taster, please read up - all political parties are in favour of self ID.

self ID is anyone can say they are any gender with no expectation of any transition surgery

5,556 Anyone else addicted?

Based on what I've seen elsewhere, there are some very vocal people who seem to have massive issues with feminism but suddenly seem to have found their inner feminist when it comes to trans people. I would put the Sun and the Daily Mail in that category.

Still, I suppose that if they are saying what people want to hear, then it's fine. Their views on women and all the mysogny that comes from them can be ignored.

They don't give a shit about women's rights.

I tried to sign but got no email to confirm. Not in Junk or anywhere.

Butterfly Try again, and double-check you have put the correct email address.

Not much point in worrying about women's rights of self ID of your gender goes through - any man can say he's a woman.

If you haven't sudden woken up to your inner feminism - it is possibly still sleeping.

If not worried from your own point of view - find out from your kids the pressure to conform to a gender - and encouraged to think in wrong body etc.

This is what lots of teens are talking and worrying about.

The article in the guardian today.

Any see the parallels between that and the one in pink news?

Coverage, yes but seemly only to use the opportunity to give a voice to activists who were not even at the meeting.

I used to love the Guardian but now I'm just fed up with it's unrelenting force feeding of a male dominated left wing agenda.

Subs cancelled.

I'm saving quite a bit between that and leaving Labour.

Enough even to subscribe to the Times (who know it would come to that?).

@kalapattar I do see what you’re saying. But when the traditional press you’d expect support from also don’t give a shit about women’s rights, what then?

Better to accept the support on this single issue but continue to call out misogyny, racism and all the rest on a case by case basis.

As far as I can see, the only other alternative is putting up and shutting up.

Like women have been told to do for centuries...

What would really fuck with the Daily Mail and The Sun's head would be an issue involving trans people and Muslims. Possibly refugees. They wouldn't have a clue how to react.

Well, I’d say this IS that issue.

Swim England have published policy that says if a trans person self-identifies as a woman (or man), they should be helped to attend the sex-segregated swimming session of their choice.

This would be a MASSIVE issue for the Muslim community in many areas as women-only sessions are usually the only way religiously observant Muslim women get to swim. Because they can’t be dressed immodestly around a man.

Self ID basically pisses on that.

I’m pro-trans, but I’m pro-Muslim and pro-women’s rights too.

Gender is not recognised by Islam as the defining characteristic of sex. That would be biology.

You don’t need to be Muslim to agree that excluding vast swathes of biological women because of the wishes of a small percentage of the populace not to feel ‘othered’ is not ok.

If you’ve never been to a women-only session in an area with a high proportion of Muslim residents, you might not appreciate how huge this is.

Even in women-only sessions, most Muslim women wear neck to ankle and wrist wet suits, and swim caps so hair is covered.

A ‘female identifying’ man (physically male) would be so far beyond the levels of comfortable tolerance you’ve no idea.

I'm just going to leave this here again.
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

Sparklesocks Yeah I think about Hillsborough coverage and the hacking of millie dowler’s phone (and deleting voicemails, giving her family hope she was alive) and I can’t get on board with the sun, sorry. Doesn’t matter how long it’s been.

It was later confirmed that they didn’t delete the voicemails
Get your facts straight

Ah FFS - it’s live online on Mail but I am being prevented from commenting by registration/login issues. The petition is mentioned but not linked:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5514231/Feminists-self-identify-males-infiltrate-men-swim-session.html?login

Ah FFS - it’s live online on Mail but I am being prevented from commenting by registration/login issues. The petition is mentioned but not linked:

What do you think of the comments?

It’s rather what I feared on the comments, tbh. People can’t see the context of how the change affects long term. I have now managed to register and comment but not sure if the petition link will get through moderation.

I hate to think it'll turn into a backlash against those trans people who do need actual support rather than against the ideology around self id and erasing women's spaces. I don't like The Mail or the comments it tends to generate.

Which is why when commenting and sharing people need to make the point loudly that they are not anti trans but anti self-ID and pro- women. That there is nothing in the current GRC legislation that needs to change (2 medical opinions and 2 years living as adopted gender).

Read it. Didn't link the petition. I'm trying to register to leave a comment

Agreed.

May I tweet the daily mail link?