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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?

999 replies

ChaosNeverRains · 15/03/2018 10:13

Genuine question.

I was until fairly recently I think probably agnostic rather than anything else, having been brought up in a very church oriented school where the emphasis was all on sin and retribution and the need to worship this higher being and that if you lived every day then it was through God’s will - you get the picture. Until recently though I was prepared to believe that perhaps there was a higher being out there somewhere, and even now I can see that some could believe that there is a higher being out there or that there was at some point.

But what I don’t understand is why people seem to believe that there is a God who looks over them individually when everything points to that not being the case. People talk about the power of prayer when actually no such power exists. The man dying of cancer is no more or less likely to die if you prayed for him than if you didn’t. I know of some very devout Christians who have fallen victim to the most horrific illnesses and where the church have genuinely believed that praying for them means God will heal them, which of course he hasn’t. But when they die those same people are thought to be up there eternally worshipping the lord. Why?

I can see that a belief in God might somehow make people feel comforted that this isn’t the only life we will have, but what I can’t see is that a God who allows the amount of bad and suffering that goes on in the world, even on an individual level should be so worshipped. If a father treated his children in the way that the supposed Heavenly Father treats his, no-one would want anything to do with him. Yet worshippers of a God go to all and any lengths to ensure that they continue to do things in the name of the father and to not upset him for fear of the retribution they will receive.

I’m not one for dismissing belief as believing in the fairies and what-not (with the possible exception of the dinosaur deniers,) but I am becoming more and more curious as to how it is that people can believe in this individual God and actually believe that it is true when there is no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

PS: I am talking about any and all religion not just one. My thought process being that if there were one God it would be the same God whether you are Christian muslim or Jewish but that the scriptures are defined by humans to make for the individual religions.

OP posts:
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Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 21:51

I feel like something is missing and I’m trying to find what my purpose is and looked into religion.
As I stated before my son believes in god so I went to church for over a year with him.
I read the bible.
I came to the conclusion that it’s either a: a load of crap b: god is actually the devil having a laugh or c: god is an awful disputable being who deserves no respect.

I’ve gone for a.

TheBrilliantMistake · 20/03/2018 21:54

Perhaps it's a positive trait that people can criticise Christianity and the likely worst outcome is offending someone. Criticising Islam tends to result in a far more aggressive response - but maybe that's just a perception caused by the extremists.

BertrandRussell · 20/03/2018 21:54

“Religion is interesting and it's a shame, I feel, that political correctness obstructs open conversation for fear of offending“

I don’t feel remotely constrained by political correctness or anything else. I am intrigued that you do. In what way?

BertrandRussell · 20/03/2018 21:56

Incidentally, Missymoo- your post of 21.44 is more offensive to non believers than anything that’s been posted about believers!

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 21:59

Agreed ^ there are so many amazing selfless good people who don’t believe in god.

TheBrilliantMistake · 20/03/2018 22:01

I came to the conclusion that the more we think we know about, the greater the unknown. That makes me believe there IS something more out there, but probably not an omnipotent God.
We might very well be some plaything of a greater being, but I just can't buy the convoluted way in which our 'sins' are forgiven via Jesus's death, and yet we still need to personally ask for forgiveness. Even an innocent child needs to accept Jesus to become Christian. It's all just a little too much for me.

However, I am fascinated by guilt, love, empathy, compassion etc - they are not very scientific phenomena and yet they are very real to me. For me, there's a 'soul'. But I can't prove that any more than a Christian can prove things.

Missymoo100 · 20/03/2018 22:02

Bert- I don't think it's offensive.
It's not saying that christians think they're good- the opposite. Christianity is recognising that you are not good- therefore in need of repentance and grace in the form of salvation.
Anyone who thinks they are truly good is deluded. Do you think you are a good and moral person 100% of the time. If you do it's probably falsity based on pride.

Bigladybloomers · 20/03/2018 22:07

@Greenyogagirl-I am not a Christian but I believe in God.

To answer the OP my faith gives me joy, inspiration, strength, comfort, a sense of wonder, understanding, patience and probably a lot more. It encourages social justice. It helps me to try and be better and love.

I think it is easy to assume that other faiths are like Christianity but in a different language! But that isn't the case at all-I don't really understand the Christian view of God (as presented in popular culture), I don't believe in a devil or any other naughty being making me do bad things. No priesthood. No sexism. No putting other beliefs down. Generally my faith makes sense to me if you see what I mean. I don't feel it is irrational.

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:08

I think it’s easy to be a good and moral person 100% of the time based on normal standards and not beating yourself up because no one can compare to god.

Thebrilliantmistake ive looked into Buddhism and it seems to make more sense to me

Missymoo100 · 20/03/2018 22:08

Brilliant-
We might very well be some plaything of a greater being, but I just can't buy the convoluted way in which our 'sins' are forgiven via Jesus's death, and yet we still need to personally ask for forgiveness. Even an innocent child needs to accept Jesus to become Christian. It's all just a little too much for me.

For me the asking for forgiveness is more breaking that pride that I had that convinced me I was a good person, realising that I am in fact not, then asking for forgiveness.
Jesus provides grace.

BertrandRussell · 20/03/2018 22:09

"Do you think you are a good and moral person 100% of the time. If you do it's probably falsity based on pride."
No I don't. I also don't consider that being good and moral requires a God.

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:10

Thank you bigladybloomers Smile that actually makes sense

Missymoo100 · 20/03/2018 22:11

Green-
I think it’s easy to be a good and moral person 100% of the time based on normal standards and not beating yourself up because no one can compare to god

no one is a good and moral person 100% of the time- that is why we all fall short of gods standard- that is the whole basis of the bible- the need for salvation.

TheBrilliantMistake · 20/03/2018 22:11

I think we are all human with a mix of emotions and motivations.
There is good in me, with or without a God, and there is bad too.

If God gave me more compassion, then it wouldn't really be MY compassion would it? - it would be God's intervention.
And if my own personal compassion not enough? is it so pitifully unworthy that I need God to improve it? Maybe it is, but I don't see amazing compassion from churches that shines so much brighter than anything else.

What I do see is day to day Christians being quite comfortable with most of their lives, and a seeming sense of inner peace. I can see that.
I just don't see it with churches. I see something more sinister like a very persuasive political party.

I'm also not saying every Christian has this seeming peace, or that non-Chrisitians very exhibit it, just 'on the whole' they do seem to be more content. I'd admit that.

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:12

What makes you a bad person? How can a newborn baby who hasn’t been baptised be abused and murdered and is still classed as a sinner? Or any baby at all for that matter? We’re born sinners because god is punishing everyone because Adam and Eve failed his temptation test. That’s not a loving god, that’s a vindictive god.

TheBrilliantMistake · 20/03/2018 22:13

God made the world (so we are told).
It's a corrupt and sinful world.

Whose fault is that then?

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:13

I think most people are good and moral 100% of the time to be honest. It’s not difficult to know what’s right or wrong and do the right thing

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:14

Thebrilliantmistake -anything good is god, anything bad is us (free will) despite the fact that we are made in his image

TheBrilliantMistake · 20/03/2018 22:15

uh oh, I think I'm in the 85-90% bracket. No way am I 100% !!!

Missymoo100 · 20/03/2018 22:15

No I don't. I also don't consider that being good and moral requires a God.

Ok, so think of society at large. Look around you. I see people off their faces on alcohol/drugs, I see a sexed up society - that's leaving people vulnerable to exploitation, i see teenagers self harming, I see violent crime increasing.... Symptoms of a godless society.

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:16

Ah but when everyone believes in god it’s ok to kill in his name? That’s a better society?

Missymoo100 · 20/03/2018 22:18

I think most people are good and moral 100% of the time to be honest. It’s not difficult to know what’s right or wrong and do the right thing

Ok, so why is not difficult to know right from wrong? - what is right and what is wrong- unless there is some higher moral order?

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:18

Also the horrors today aren’t that different to any other time it’s just now we have the internet, camera phones and other technology which means we hear about everything.

BertrandRussell · 20/03/2018 22:18

So you think society was better when practically everyone was a Christian and children were sent to work down the mines?

Greenyogagirl · 20/03/2018 22:19

Evolution + common sense = knowing the difference between right and wrong.

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