To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?

[ChaosNeverRains]

Genuine question.

I was until fairly recently I think probably agnostic rather than anything else, having been brought up in a very church oriented school where the emphasis was all on sin and retribution and the need to worship this higher being and that if you lived every day then it was through God’s will - you get the picture. Until recently though I was prepared to believe that perhaps there was a higher being out there somewhere, and even now I can see that some could believe that there is a higher being out there or that there was at some point.

But what I don’t understand is why people seem to believe that there is a God who looks over them individually when everything points to that not being the case. People talk about the power of prayer when actually no such power exists. The man dying of cancer is no more or less likely to die if you prayed for him than if you didn’t. I know of some very devout Christians who have fallen victim to the most horrific illnesses and where the church have genuinely believed that praying for them means God will heal them, which of course he hasn’t. But when they die those same people are thought to be up there eternally worshipping the lord. Why?

I can see that a belief in God might somehow make people feel comforted that this isn’t the only life we will have, but what I can’t see is that a God who allows the amount of bad and suffering that goes on in the world, even on an individual level should be so worshipped. If a father treated his children in the way that the supposed Heavenly Father treats his, no-one would want anything to do with him. Yet worshippers of a God go to all and any lengths to ensure that they continue to do things in the name of the father and to not upset him for fear of the retribution they will receive.

I’m not one for dismissing belief as believing in the fairies and what-not (with the possible exception of the dinosaur deniers,) but I am becoming more and more curious as to how it is that people can believe in this individual God and actually believe that it is true when there is no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

PS: I am talking about any and all religion not just one. My thought process being that if there were one God it would be the same God whether you are Christian muslim or Jewish but that the scriptures are defined by humans to make for the individual religions.

*control

But there are so many rules imposed upon a woman’s sexuality by most religions. Does anyone really think that Jesus would care if a woman enjoyed a sexually fulfilling relationship before marriage? Or that a catholic god would temporarily pause in his efforts trying to save children’s lives in Syria because he was aghast that a catholic woman chose to use contraception ?

OP, do you know any believers IRL? What do they say about their faith?

About the “abused children” that is not God’s doing, that is the abusers. God isn’t sat watching and deciding for us like it’s a game of Sims. We have freedom of choice, he gave us that so we could find true love and find true love in him. With that choice unfortunately, comes the evil. so, the doctor, the social worker, the people who save the abused children, all those people who do good in the world, that’s not God’s will either then, because it’s all about freedom of choice.

Therefore, as God doesn’t have a will given he gave us all freedom of choice to do as we want be that good or evil, there is in fact no need for a God.

99% of the suffering in the world is due to humans inflicting the suffering on to one another or the mind inflicting it onto oneself, true or false.

Evil, evil things happen in the world. You expect me to think that god is good, kind and loving. But to me he's a sadist with an ant farm.

I don’t expect you to think anything. But I expect you to accept and respect my beliefs. I don’t think that’s so hard to do.

Probably the most patronising of all the christian arguments. It basically says "stop asking questions".

I’m sorry that you feel this way, but it is still my belief - I’m just answering the questions being asked, not asking you to subscribe to my thoughts and beliefs. I have personally found aimlessly questioning why the world seems dangerous and unfair to be very damaging. The understanding of and faith in the world I’ve developed with the help of God has allowed me to find peace.

I’ve been a Christian all my life. I come from a non-denominational congregation (so not COE,Catholic etc) where the focus is on who Jesus and God are and my relationship with them. Not “do this, don’t do that” etc.
My faith is based on God’s grace. I am not perfect in the slightest, but I try to be as kind as I possibly can to everyone I meet. I find that if I’m spending time with God, Reading my Bible, praying every day, it changes me and makes me a much calmer, nicer person

I do find it quite arrogant to hear people say “God won’t heal! Why’s there suffering? He doesn’t do what I tell him to, do he can’t be real!” for example. I mean, if God is GOD, why are we so big headed that we expect Him to do exactly what WE want him to do?! And then throw a tantrum when he doesn’t comply.

Do I believe in His goodness? Yes I do.
Do I believe that He is allowing sin is in this world for a time until Jesus comes back again? Yes I do.
I believe that in this time He is drawing people to Him by showing love, comfort and mercy, in spite of all the evil around.
He doesn’t exist to make my life easy (shock! Horror!!). I don’t choose to believe so that miraculously I will be rich and my life will be perfect!
I believe because I LOVE Him. I see His working in my life. I can feel His presence when I worship, I can see how he’s taken situations in my life that could have destroyed me (sexual abuse, losing babies etc) and when I asked Him to come help me, He healed my heart and emotions and through that I’ve been able to help others.
I spent a lot of time in prayer sobbing, asking God why things were allowed to happen to me. Not once did I feel God rebuke me for daring to question him. All I felt was His love over my life.
There is sin and evil in this world. God chooses to let it run free to draw people to Him. But He deals with and heals us when we get hurt. His goodness doesn’t change, His love for us is perfect and He is desperate to have a relationship with each and every one of us.
We just tend to look at life through our own (sometimes selfish) filter of “well if He doesn’t fit my idea of what He should be, or make my life easy” and decide He must then be bad, or non existent.
I believe we have free will to make our own choices. We also have free will to pray and ask God what His plan for our lives is. Ultimately, I believe He is good and wants to Best for me, and sometimes if I don’t understand something, I remind myself that He is God, I am not. I don’t always need to know right now, I just have to trust Him.

I don't think I've ever believed. I didn't go to a faith school but we had Christian assembly once a week, which I hated. The Jehovah's witnesses got to go to the library rather than assembly and I used to be so jealous! I can remember being about 6/7 and being in a cafe inside a cathedral and thinking that swearing is bad so if I swear at god if he existed he'd do something to punish me. So I would swear at god in my head and when nothing happened so it confirmed my suspicions that he didn't exist!!

I've gone through through many traumas and I have healed through myself, my own optisimim and the love of my friends and dh and dc.

So if God gives us choice and someone chooses to abuse a tiny baby - how on earth is that fair? The baby has zero choice. A god that allows people to have choice to abuse the vulnerable is not a god I'd want anything to do with.

This quote sums it up for me:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

Epicurus

Ok. Why did god invent mosquitoes which kill thousands of children with malaria?

Why did god invent sepsis which kills & maims people?

Etc

Even if the arguments sound silly.

God was invented before science and knowledge.. God's, goddesses... It's a totally redundant thing now.

It's tribal.. Controlling.. Misogynistic etc.
God didn't create anything. That doesn't mean there are unseen things or happenings or a magic.. It's just not God.

“From my personal experience atheists tend to be a lot more pushy with their beliefs than anyone of a religious background.”

In day to day life, this is 100% true!

Not a fan of religious organisations, I think they are mostly out for their own selfish gain. Twisted and sick.

I think a lot of the worship, festivals and ceremonies come from Pagan beginnings and I am no into that either.

There are a lot of unknowns, but I believe that it intended, you have to choose to have faith.

I also believe that Governments have diluted the truth through the years. They want the fear to come from their doing not an all mighty powers.

On the topic of abusers etc...

God doesn’t control people, so he can’t decide their next move. Like I said before, it isn’t a game of Sims.

Someone said something about a Facebook post thanking God for getting him home safely... “nothing to do with God just the Gritters” or similar.

In response to that, God created life. He inspires people, he listens to prayer. Your friend felt God kept him safe, so you really begrudge him that?

BigFatGoalie
Great post

Like the tooth fairy, Loch Ness Monster & big foot. I’ll believe when there’s proof

In response to that, God created life. He inspires people, he listens to prayer. Your friend felt God kept him safe, so you really begrudge him that?

The problem isn't that religious people thank god for something they think he did. The problem is that religious people want to push their religion on other people.

If God created everything, including the universe, and the universe is 13 billion years old, chances are God popped his clogs a very long time ago. Which might explain why he allows the nasty stuff to happen - he's not around any more to stop it.

I remember once somebody asking for prayers for a sick child. The request said something like” We need many prayers to raise him up so that God can see him”. If I had had any doubts that would have confirmed my atheism instantly.

I might have found the idea of 'God' more believable if the entity had been portrayed as a woman. Nature used to be portrayed as 'Mother Earth' by the Pagans whose ideas are where most Christian celebrations seem to derive from. Makes sense that a religion invented by men as a form of control invents a male entity as 'creator'. Even using a capital H for him.

I often wonder how 'believers' rationalise the thought that 'God' has well over 7 billion people that he might expect to pray to him or need guidance from him, how on earth does he keep up? The same with the idea of reincarnation, how on earth does he cope with the admin?

I've always had some faith, I've always said a quick prayer when things are going bad, and that was heightened when my dad was dying. He was very religious (compared to me) and I honestly saw how much it helped him both for something to do and just picking him up. I've always believed in a nicey nice version of religion where I think of god as an overseeer but with no huge power to help mankind-except with the odd miracle. My in laws are all atheists (as in they wrote me be excommunicated so the real deal!) and find ways to make snide comments when religious holidays come up, and also every so often, plus they try to test me on religion, and I've told them what I believe is probably dumb etc, but I go with it. I know a lot of people will hate me for my beliefs and also the fact that I'm Irish and catholic I get even more stick given out sordid past, but I do get comfort and a sense of community from religion even though I don't go to mass very often. I'm sorry I don't even seem to have a point!

My father has a serious heart attack. At the time my mother was "born again" and a member of a busy Baptist church.
As he lay gravely ill in hospital the Pastor encouraged my mother to pray- indeed the whole congregation prayed for him.

The Pastor told her that if her faith was strong enough god would listen and my father's life would be spared.

He died.

My mother has blamed herself for decades - she feels that if only her faith had been stronger my father would have lived.

Bertrand i think most people would find that remark off putting. However what other people say shouldn't have any bearing on our beliefs. That's just people.

If anyone's faith was ever wavering i think it's threads like this that might do it. If i was an atheist i'd hate to think that it was something i'd wrote that caused someone to doubt their faith. I've never understood why atheists are so vocal about their lack of belief. Surely it should be suffice to just say, "I don't believe in God", no need to argue with believers. Each to their own is what i say.

“Surely it should be suffice to just say, "I don't believe in God", no need to argue with believers.”

But it is apparantly OK for believers to argue with atheists?

And OK for believers to misrepresent atheists (as you did) unchallenged?

Surely it should be suffice to just say, "I don't believe in God", no need to argue with believers. Each to their own is what i say.

It would be nice if it was "each to their own* though.

It's not- that's the problem. The church has pervaded society to a huge extent from education, misogyny, woman's place, women's reproductive rights, homosexual, rights, education.

Some families lie about being christian simply so their children can get equal opportunities of education.

It's fine to say live and let live when you are the one with privilege.