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White privilege... really? In schools??!

539 replies

stellenbosch · 10/03/2018 23:19

To quote Bastille, 'the world's gone mad' ...

White privilege... really? In schools??!
OP posts:
Certcert · 11/03/2018 09:51

Hmm, so is this:

  1. Making people feel guilt (for a privilege they have been given) due to the colour of their skin (which they didn't ask for) whilst, at the same time, telling people it's wrong to shame people due to the colour of their skin (which they didn't ask for) as it has not given them the same privilege as someone, who didn't ask for it, in the first place?

Or,

  1. Telling us we need to be focusing on behaviours rather than skin colour.

Or,

  1. Have I completely missed the point? Confused
SleepFreeZone · 11/03/2018 09:55

You can also be entirely the wrong shade of white. Too pale isn’t a good thing at all, you need to be just the right shade to be really beautiful. God forbid you have a skin condition by the way.

I have Rosacea, I’m often a very unattractive shade of red, I bloody hate having pale Celtic skin. It’s honestly ruined my life. So I get it, it’s just that no fucker has any sympathy whatsoever for me.

PatriarchyPersonified · 11/03/2018 09:57

Whenever you give examples of all the numerous ways and axis that one person can be advantaged or disadvantaged, the comeback is always something along the lines of 'yes but all else being equal a white person is still advantaged over a black person.'

My point is that:

  1. All else is never equal. Every single person has been advantaged or disadvantaged in numerous different ways because of different things in their lives, most of which they had no control over. The hypothetical two 'control subjects' who are identical in every way except for their race simply don't exist.
  1. Even if you accept the 'all else being equal' argument, it only applies in western, majority white countries and is simply a proxy for majority privilege.
BertrandRussell · 11/03/2018 09:57

Just thought I would repeat something from my earlier “ cut and paste bullshit”

““It’s not that the word “privilege” is incorrect, it’s that it’s not their word. When confronted with “privilege,” they fiddle with the word itself, and haul out the dictionaries and find every possible way to talk about the word but not any of the things the word signifies”

kalapattar · 11/03/2018 09:59

your still talking about ghosts here, what are the tangible barriers that are put in front of non white people unfairly

There are a whole load of skin colours out there - and that is forgotten in this debate.

Black children are more likely to face subtle prejudice from teachers. The expectations are generally lower - and that's why OFSTED look into this. They are less likely to be picked to answer questions and this has an effect on confidence. They are more likely to be seen as poorly behaved and judged differently (in general to their white peers).

That's just one thing. However - there are Asian children and children from other backgrounds who have their own issues.

Just one thing - I think that people from a BME background could give their own experiences (as a class) about issues they've faced.

TheHulksPurplePants · 11/03/2018 10:00

*Unless of course we are in Iran, in which case Mohammed has an enormous advantage.

Majority privilege in action.*

Depends on the job. Even in Iran people with darker skin colors are prejudiced against. They're seen as "not real Persians" and a leftover of the African slave trade.

Goldmandra · 11/03/2018 10:01

Have I completely missed the point?

Yes.

Racist behaviour should always be challenged.

Racist behaviour isn't always overt or conscious.

As a society, we recognise the privilege afforded by being of a certain social class, being better looking, being financially well off, receiving a high quality education, being male, having a parent who went to university, etc. We also need to recognise that there is a privilege afforded by being born with white skin.

Rumpledfaceskin · 11/03/2018 10:01

Sleepfree but if you’re white and unattractive or white with pale blotchy skin (as i am too) or a disfiguring birth mark people still won’t look at you and make judgements on your whole character/level of education/intelligence because of it. Rascism is so much more than just how we look.

kalapattar · 11/03/2018 10:01

Even if you accept the 'all else being equal' argument, it only applies in western, majority white countries and is simply a proxy for majority privilege

Or power privilege?

TheHulksPurplePants · 11/03/2018 10:04

2. Even if you accept the 'all else being equal' argument, it only applies in western, majority white countries and is simply a proxy for majority privilege.

No it doesn't. White/Pale skin is seen as more advantageous in virtually every country in the world. There's a reason whitening creams are everywhere in Asia and Africa.

Not only that, but as a Caucasian person in an Asian or African country you are treated better and with more respect than any other race. I've been living over seas for 14 years as a minority "white person" and I see it and experience it every single day.

Palavra · 11/03/2018 10:06

I like the message but it is awkwardly presented and imo putting it on a poster withot a good explanation might put people off. I think if you’re put off then you’re participating in racism and denial of the effects of racism - but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t try not to put people off who might be receptive with a proper explanation.

It’s all good to have positive role models but I have no doubts my children and likely any grandchildren will still face job discrimination, still face racism. Are the positive role models meant to be for us or for white people? If they’re for poc it doesn’t really challenge the problem we all face, that is, white privilege and racism. A black role model does little for me who is from a tiny tiny minority in terms of ethnic and linguistic background (except in some cases like as a child I thought all politicians in the UK were white, and having anyone on w poster would have been pretty amazing) and while representstion is very important, it is often to difficult to achieve: there are some very good reasons why poc might not enter certain professions as much, or might not achieve fame or win nobel prizes as much, because of racism and its social, educational and economic effects.

It is very healthy for us to consider our privileges. It makes it equal. A ‘positive’ campaign would have to ignore the disadvantages poc face (discrimination based on name, black men being feared, or followed around shops, implicit bias in interviews, general insensitivty. Someone who is black in the U.K. is likely to come from a country shaped by colonialism or slavery, someone who is south Asian comes from w region economically destroyed by the British empire, these all cause generational disruption and damage, and it’s important to acknowledge that imo). It would also put the pressure on us, as minorities. As if positive role models mean we can safely avoid racism? Or the economic disadvantage we might be more likely to be born into?

If people considered their privilege, it might reduce implicit bias and subconscious bias. In the same way I don’t think a man can not be actively sexist if they don’t realise they live in a patriarchical society where men largely benefit the most. It’s importsnt for me to acknowledge the many privileges I have (someone who is not learning disabled, has no mobility problems, speaks English, was born with British citizenship with a loving mother, has no experience of mental illness, chronic illness). That includes the privilege I have in terms of skin colour due to colourism, for example.

Dadtrying · 11/03/2018 10:06

Really Kala because the Centre forum found that white British pupils actually lag behind others in the school system by the time they reach GCSE ? And white pupils are the least likely to go to university ? Was there actually a study that found black kids fave subtle prejudice or is this based on your own belief ? It's true they is a disproportionate number of black kids who get expelled but instead of saying it's unfair due to the kids skin colour we should look at each case individually and decide if there has been a racist overtone, I believe in most cases not. Especially if we look at factors outside their school life that affect them and more than likely have an influence on their behaviour.

PatriarchyPersonified · 11/03/2018 10:07

Thehulks

Yes but your living there as a foreign, western, white person, (I don't want to assume your financial status but I'd expect you have a better lifestyle than the average local person)

If you were born white into the same society and neighbourhoods in that area, with parents of the same class, status as the locals, I'd suggest your 'white privilege' would vanish or even reverse.

PatriarchyPersonified · 11/03/2018 10:08

Thehulks

And pale skin preference is a prejudice that has existed in plenty of African and Indian societies long before they ever saw white people.

It's not right, bit it's nothing to do with Caucasian white people and it certainly isn't their fault.

Certcert · 11/03/2018 10:11

Have I completely missed the point?

Yes.

Racist behaviour should always be challenged.

^which is what I said it point 2. That it is behaviours that need challenging; which isn't out of someone's control.

zzzzz · 11/03/2018 10:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kalapattar · 11/03/2018 10:12

It's true they is a disproportionate number of black kids who get expelled but instead of saying it's unfair due to the kids skin colour we should look at each case individually and decide if there has been a racist overtone

Especially if we look at factors outside their school life that affect them and more than likely have an influence on their behaviour

Have you ever wondered how much of the issues affecting them - either in schools or outside of schools - is linked to the barriers in society, racism, everyday racism - and all feeding into the homelife, the expectations etc?

It's a tangled web that affects people.

because the Centre forum found that white British pupils actually lag behind others in the school system by the time they reach GCSE

There's certainly an issue with white, working class children at the moment in schools.

jaimelannistersgoldenhand · 11/03/2018 10:12

Is the poster aimed at school kids or parents? While I agree with the sentiment, what are kids (or parents) supposed to do about white privilege? It's not as clear as something like "Save wildlife - don't litter" which could have an effect.

Certcert · 11/03/2018 10:13

*in

PowerUp · 11/03/2018 10:13

IMO this kind of message is divisive and it isn't helpful to those from ethnic minorities to be perpetually portrayed as victims.

Dadtrying · 11/03/2018 10:14

Because you show a video with biased POV from the outset doesn't mean you have proven anything ? If I show you a Ben Shapiro video subunkingbwhite privilege does this mean white privilege doesn't exist and we can all go home ? Of course not, just putting a video up and claiming it's correct is just lazy.

Dadtrying · 11/03/2018 10:14

Debunking*

BertrandRussell · 11/03/2018 10:16

"IMO this kind of message is divisive and it isn't helpful to those from ethnic minorities to be perpetually portrayed as victims"

They aren't being. HTH.

Dadtrying · 11/03/2018 10:16

Kala the factors that affect kids from black community are linked to our own communities like single motherhood, drugs and knife crime

TheHulksPurplePants · 11/03/2018 10:17

*Yes but your living there as a foreign, western, white person, (I don't want to assume your financial status but I'd expect you have a better lifestyle than the average local person)

If you were born white into the same society and neighbourhoods in that area, with parents of the same class, status as the locals, I'd suggest your 'white privilege' would vanish or even reverse.*

Not at all. I would still have a higher status. I would be seen as smarter, more efficient, and my work would be valued more.

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