White privilege... really? In schools??!

[stellenbosch]

To quote Bastille, 'the world's gone mad' ...

The image doesn't really do anything. What is the point of things like this other than a tickmark exercise to say we've made people "aware" and those who make it can pat themselves on the back for their awareness to make others aware? It looks more self congratulatory than educational.

The poster is part of a larger campaign and supported by the Truth and Reconciliation Board of Canada who are looking to right the many injustices done to the First Nations communities in Canada.

People really need to look at the context.

Not everything is blamed on white privilage. Half the population doesn’t seem to know what it is or understand it, how can everything be blamed on it?

Re the awareness point this is a poster to raise awareness in a school. Future leaders, future decision makers. I’m sure we’d all love an equal world tomorrow but it isn’t going to happen.

That down I do not deny, and in America, the white Police officers treat black people so badly, compared to white people, I guess the Hispanic people as well. Your experiences at the airport are totally unacceptable. My mum is from Armenia and has olive skin, and has experienced some underhanded comments in the past, but she tells me it is better now, she lives in London where it is more multicultural. My dad was white, and his family disagreed with the marriage, and it was evident in how they treated her and me. It was sad, I don't see them much now, since dad died when I was 11.

I think if my mum were to live in a less multi cultural area, than she might possibly experience some racism.

My mum gave me a very Armenian name, which was the object of ridicule in my primary school. I seemed to be like the Greek girl in My Big Fat Greek Wedding. Thick dark mono brow eyebrows, dark hair, not as pretty or as delicate like the girls with blond hair and blue eyes, I so desperately wanted to be like them.

I am not saying white priviledge does not exist, its that everything is being blamed on it, by white people.”

No it isn’t!

The point of Serena Williams’ story is that black women in America are significantly more likely to die in in childbirth and post natally than white people. She is rich and famous- had she not been she might well have added to those statistics. She needed to have something else to counterbalance her blackness that a white woman would not have needed,

I am a Metis person from the States, I'm quite aware of the context of the image, I just don't think it's useful particularly in schools. Kids will see lots of adults talking about this who are doing fuck all to actually make any difference and call it for the bullshit that it is. I saw lots of it when I was a kid, lots of adults talked about how horrible something was and it wasn't acceptable and doing nothing. That speaks louder than anything like this.

Discussions of privilege or injustices that focus on awareness and do not include examples of actions or how people can take responsibility to make things better aren't worth anyone's time, no matter how large the campaign is.

I think if my mum were to live in a less multi cultural area, than she might possibly experience some racism

I think that people's experiences of any kind of privilege or racism, homophobia, class differences etc must be affected by where they live. If you aren't different to most people.

I find it interesting that white people try to tel black people what white privilege and racism is and get tetchy when told they are wrong.

They sound like male rights activists who state there is no such thing as male privilege and misogyny.

Yet most women argue there is. And women should be listened to.

Why are we not able to listen to black people in the same why?

Aeroflotgirl So, I'm just trying to understand what you are saying. You believe that white privilege exists, but think that everything is blamed on it?

I don't think that's the case, because it seems so hard to get people to accept that white privilege is a thing in the first place. I wonder if people just don't like talking about it. I feel like people are happy to accept that disabled people are at a disadvantage, they understand that they have privilege over disabled people. They are happy to accept that men have privilege over women, but don't want to accept their white privilege.

I agree scottis, is for example, Serena's birth experience, because she is black, or she is the role of patient, and in a subordinate position, she has less power than the doctors. How do you know that, unless you ask her, for her views.

Discussions of privilege or injustices that focus on awareness and do not include examples of actions or how people can take responsibility to make things better aren't worth anyone's time, no matter how large the campaign is.

The awareness raising is part of it. As I said upthread I’ve had some uncomfortable moments where it’s apparent that the person I’m with is being treated differently to me.
The question I suppose is what do I do about it day to day? If someone is treated poorly while I’m there I’ll speak up, but I’d have done that anyway because I hate twattish behaviour. I guess my question is what do I alter if anything about my own behaviour? I don’t think I’m racist, I work in a very international context and often work virtually so I’m not face to face. I’ve asked for CVs that come my way to be blinded (name covered up) for example.

Practical tips on other obvious things I should be doing? It’s depressing to think this is a widespread unconscious bias most people have.

Yes down I do agree, I am not saying that it does not exist, that would be totally wrong, it seems like everything is being blamed for it. For example I got a good degree, I liked to think that I got a good degree because I worked hard, and put in the time and effort, not because of my colour. I like to think that i earned my job as a Community worker, not because of my colour, but because I researched the role and performed well in the interview.

Also those from other countries who are not black, but have different accents, skin colours or look, are treated less favourably than the tradition white person.

I liked to think that I got a good degree because I worked hard, and put in the time and effort, not because of my colour. I like to think that i earned my job as a Community worker, not because of my colour, but because I researched the role and performed well in the interview

I am sure many men think the same when they got a job. They probably worked hard, put time and effort in, researched the role and performed well.

But it's arguable that in general, and in certain areas, men have an advantage over women when applying for jobs.

aeroflot doubtless your degree delivers is down to you. Doubtless you performed well at interview and deserve your job.

I think the privilege issue comes in at earlier stages. Maybe that CV with the blatantly Muslim or African name got sifted out, or maybe the admissions tutors rejected someone because of unconscious bias. That kind of thing.

I think we have to be careful not to see this as an attack on white people - your hard work got you the degree and your performance at interview got you the job.

What the issue perhaps is that a series of inequalities may have lead to other people not being shortlisted or even able to apply, or not getting to university. It’s not disparaging your achievements at all - more saying that others may have had obstacles put in their way.

The fair way to level the playing field is not to drag you or your achievements down (which o think some people think it is) it’s to remove the stumbling blocks for others so that everyone can achieve their potential as you have done.

Levelling up basically. Not levelling down, which some wings of the press seem to be scaremongering about.

I agree Anatidae, however I have a very very unusual name both surname and first name, and it could look African or from the Middle East. But yes I think in this climate, it might be that a person with a Muslim sounding name does not get shortlisted. Though I worked for the Council, so HR should be very on the ball about Equal Opportunities. I think this might be more prevalent in the private sector.

When ever I phone up a company or organisation, and they ask me my name, I hear a gasp on the phone, and you must spell that, or I interject and ask them if they would like me to pronounce and spell it.

I understand that this poster was created for a very specific purpose. However, it does raise some interesting questions.

I do think that things can be more nuanced. My DC would identify as white and DH would probably do so as a North African Arab. However, DH is olive skinned and looks "foreign". Both he and the DC have Arabic names and are Muslim. On the other hand they are privately educated, live in a two parent family and are financially secure.

So walking down the street my DC would not be subject to racism. However, in school they did get "terrorist" type comments. Their education would potentially give them an advantage but their name might hold them back when applying for jobs.

Also those from other countries who are not black, but have different accents, skin colours or look, are treated less favourably than the tradition white person.

Right. So, this shows white privilege. Just because it's not just black people who are disadvantaged, doesn't lessen white privilege.

What down, don't you think those people from other countries don't also get treated very well by white people. That white priviledge is just in relation to black people. In America, the Mexicans seem to encounter a lot of negativity, as do people from the Middle East, especially since the Terrorist Attacks. No these people do not necessarily have white skin, they are either olive or dark. YOu cannot say it does not happen. I think somebody wearing a Hijab, would get treated very differently in the street or in an airport, than somebody without.

Aeroflotgirl When we talk about white privilege in the context of your degree. I believe you worked hard and gained your degree due to your own achievements. However, a black person may struggle more due to interactions in lectures and tutorials, bias when grading etc. They have some barriers that you may not have had. Similarly, you may have experienced some barriers that they might not have had.

I am mixed race but with a Scottish sounding name. I have "name privilege" because I will get through to the interview stage at least. (This sounds like a privilege I have over you, I think?) However, at the interview if I am up against a white person with similar CV/experience/qualification, then this is when white privilege comes into play.

Privileges don't cancel each other out - it's not because you have one, then I don't have any. I have "name privilege" and "accent privilege" but that doesn't mean that others don't have "white privilege", or "man privilege".

What I am saying is perfectly valid, because you disagree, there shouts of white priviledge. So it should just be reserved for black people, not those of other minority groups who might encounter negative treatment because of their colour, ethnicity or they way they dress due to their culture!

Aeroflotgirl White privilege is not having certain barriers due to being white. It's not exclusively related to and in contrast with black people. Depending on the country, white people with have less barriers compared to asian people, black people, mixed people, hispanic people etc.