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White privilege... really? In schools??!

539 replies

stellenbosch · 10/03/2018 23:19

To quote Bastille, 'the world's gone mad' ...

White privilege... really? In schools??!
OP posts:
TabbyTigger · 11/03/2018 00:04

I don’t think the poster’s well made but I think a lot of people are missing the point - just because this campaign is talking about white privilege it doesn’t mean to belittle all other forms of privilege. Just as “International Women’s Day” doesn’t belittle “Black History Month” - they’re not related.

There are different “ways” to be privileged. It depends entirely on where you live, but in Canada, being white puts you in a position of privilege. So does being wealthy. In England living in London/most parts of the south provides a degree of privilege (social mobility in Newcastle/Yorkshire etc is much worse than in London).

It’s not saying every white person is inherently more privileged than every black person. It’s saying white people rarely suffer because they’re white. Black people often do suffer because they’re black.

PerkingFaintly · 11/03/2018 00:05

Someone who gives themselves the nickname "stellenbosch" knows exactly what white privilege is.

For those who don't get the reference, Stellenbosch is not only a town in South Africa, it's the name of the oldest Afrikaans-speaking university and provided the intellectual underpinnings (such as they were) of apartheid.

UnrelentingFruitScoffer · 11/03/2018 00:05

The poster is nonsense and actually is itself racist. Showing it to schoolchildren is abusive.

BertrandRussell · 11/03/2018 00:05

This is Scalzi’s video game analogy. Worth a read. The bid about “fiddling with the word privilege” is particularly pertinent to this thread, I think.

“I’ve been thinking of a way to explain to straight white men how life works for them, without invoking the dreaded word “privilege,” to which they react like vampires being fed a garlic tart at high noon. It’s not that the word “privilege” is incorrect, it’s that it’s not their word. When confronted with “privilege,” they fiddle with the word itself, and haul out the dictionaries and find every possible way to talk about the word but not any of the things the word signifies.

So, the challenge: how to get across the ideas bound up in the word “privilege,” in a way that your average straight white man will get, without freaking out about it?

Being a white guy who likes women, here’s how I would do it:

Dudes. Imagine life here in the US — or indeed, pretty much anywhere in the Western world — is a massive role playing game, like World of Warcraft except appallingly mundane, where most quests involve the acquisition of money, cell phones and donuts, although not always at the same time. Let’s call it The Real World. You have installed The Real World on your computer and are about to start playing, but first you go to the settings tab to bind your keys, fiddle with your defaults, and choose the difficulty setting for the game. Got it?

Okay: In the role playing game known as The Real World, “Straight White Male” is the lowest difficulty setting there is.

This means that the default behaviors for almost all the non-player characters in the game are easier on you than they would be otherwise. The default barriers for completions of quests are lower. Your leveling-up thresholds come more quickly. You automatically gain entry to some parts of the map that others have to work for. The game is easier to play, automatically, and when you need help, by default it’s easier to get.

Now, once you’ve selected the “Straight White Male” difficulty setting, you still have to create a character, and how many points you get to start — and how they are apportioned — will make a difference. Initially the computer will tell you how many points you get and how they are divided up. If you start with 25 points, and your dump stat is wealth, well, then you may be kind of screwed. If you start with 250 points and your dump stat is charisma, well, then you’re probably fine. Be aware the computer makes it difficult to start with more than 30 points; people on higher difficulty settings generally start with even fewer than that.

As the game progresses, your goal is to gain points, apportion them wisely, and level up. If you start with fewer points and fewer of them in critical stat categories, or choose poorly regarding the skills you decide to level up on, then the game will still be difficult for you. But because you’re playing on the “Straight White Male” setting, gaining points and leveling up will still by default be easier, all other things being equal, than for another player using a higher difficulty setting.

Likewise, it’s certainly possible someone playing at a higher difficulty setting is progressing more quickly than you are, because they had more points initially given to them by the computer and/or their highest stats are wealth, intelligence and constitution and/or simply because they play the game better than you do. It doesn’t change the fact you are still playing on the lowest difficulty setting.

You can lose playing on the lowest difficulty setting. The lowest difficulty setting is still the easiest setting to win on. The player who plays on the “Gay Minority Female” setting? Hardcore.

And maybe at this point you say, hey, I like a challenge, I want to change my difficulty setting! Well, here’s the thing: In The Real World, you don’t unlock any rewards or receive any benefit for playing on higher difficulty settings. The game is just harder, and potentially a lot less fun. And you say, okay, but what if I want to replay the game later on a higher difficulty setting, just to see what it’s like? Well, here’s the other thing about The Real World: You only get to play it once. So why make it more difficult than it has to be? Your goal is to win the game, not make it difficult.

Oh, and one other thing. Remember when I said that you could choose your difficulty setting in The Real World? Well, I lied. In fact, the computer chooses the difficulty setting for you. You don’t get a choice; you just get what gets given to you at the start of the game, and then you have to deal with it.

So that’s “Straight White Male” for you in The Real World (and also, in the real world): The lowest difficulty setting there is. All things being equal, and even when they are not, if the computer — or life — assigns you the “Straight White Male” difficulty setting, then brother, you’ve caught a break.

TerranceandPhilip · 11/03/2018 00:05

Cultural Marxism really is absolute bollocks.

NotACleverName · 11/03/2018 00:07

The racism in this country was reignite by Obama and his wife and has caused division between the races which, is growing.

Really? I thought it was white people who reached apoplexy at the sheer thought of a black man being in the White House. Not to mention birther types, ya know, like the Tangerine Terror?

If this country were as racist as some would like to make out 45 years ago, I would certainly not given up my middle-class life in England to struggle along side of the down trodden. And I would have not stood still for any racism. I would have noticed.

Lord, I can see the racism in America and I'm in bloody Manchester ffs.

StaplesCorner · 11/03/2018 00:08

I think I'll just get me coat ...Confused

NotACleverName · 11/03/2018 00:08

The poster is nonsense and actually is itself racist. Showing it to schoolchildren is abusive.

It's neither of those things, for god's sake.

Stillscreaming · 11/03/2018 00:10

@blackteaplease

Bring up another type of oppression when one groups mentions their own (or has it mentioned) is whataboutery, it feels dismissive and disrespectful.

Disability rights matter and women's right matter, they can both be discussed but bring them up when White Privilege is mentioned, implies that white privilege isn't enough to stand on its own and I think that we'd agree that it is.

VladmirsPoutine · 11/03/2018 00:10

A poster that has named themselves stellenbosch creating this thread and saying the "world's gone mad" has to be one of the best examples of MN trollery I have ever come across on this forum.

WhalesOfYore · 11/03/2018 00:12

BertrandRussell

Great - now apply that copied & pasted bullshit to the case of transwomen flagellating born women for their "privilege".

TabbyTigger · 11/03/2018 00:14

Disability rights matter and women's right matter, they can both be discussed but bring them up when White Privilege is mentioned, implies that white privilege isn't enough to stand on its own and I think that we'd agree that it is.

This. It’s like the responses to “#blacklivesmatter” all over again.

The LGBT community faces discrimination too, as does the disabled community, and those of a low socio-economic status, and women. That doesn’t meant black people don’t. They are isolated cases of inequality.

blackteasplease · 11/03/2018 00:14

bertrand that's amazingly good!

blackteasplease · 11/03/2018 00:17

stillscreaming I wasn't really trying to do thst. I was just thinking what the best campaign to run would be. How to make it most effective bearing in mind the apparent aims.

However I totally agree that issues about race can be talked about in isolation. I was just thinking about this particular campaign when I wrote my first post.

TerranceandPhilip · 11/03/2018 00:21

Great - now apply that copied & pasted bullshit to the case of transwomen flagellating born women for their "privilege"

Well she can't do that obviously. As we all know white middle class women definitely deserve their podium finish in the oppression Olympics. They might at a push conceed women from an ethnic minority have it slightly harder than them, but that's about it.

Privilege only applies to white males you see. It's very easy to bang on about privilege when you get to; a) define it and b) frame yourself as a constant victim. In fact it's a bloody important concept as it validates your entire identity, and is a lovely ready made excuse if you fuck up any aspect of your life. If you are successful, even better! You get to pretend you worked harder than everyone else to get there. Win/win

Ivebeenaroundtheblock · 11/03/2018 00:23

Staples, it’s aimed solely at First Nations.

GrockleBocs · 11/03/2018 00:24

Isn't Kamloops where they had a home for children (First Nation children?) and there were allegations the Queen kidnapped children?

Stillscreaming · 11/03/2018 00:29

@WhalesOfYore

Was it the Americanism you didn't like? I don't really like being called 'Dude' either. Would you prefer something a bit more middle England?

The background is that both my friend and I are very white looking, with RP accents.

We ran for a train and got on without buying a ticket. When the inspector got on, she sold up tickets, it was a nice exchange, you know friendly and polite.

Then she walked down the train and gave the black girls without tickets those penalty fare notices. Their journey cost £20 more each.

My friend and I didn't say anything. We didn't know what to say. It was very uncomfortable.

BertrandRussell · 11/03/2018 00:31

"Great - now apply that copied & pasted bullshit to the case of transwomen flagellating born women for their "privilege"."
Maybe it's them tia need to do the applying? What with many of them having male privilege?

Stillscreaming · 11/03/2018 00:36

@blackteaplease, you're still digging. Sometimes it's best just to put down that shovel and say no more. I'm not expecting any breast beating or an out pouring of mea culpa, you don't even have to acknowledge what I've said.

BoneyBackJefferson · 11/03/2018 00:39

the problem with "Scalzi’s video game analogy." is that it is based on stereotypes and doesn't take in to account anything other than "straight white male" etc. It is a very simplistic view.

WhalesOfYore · 11/03/2018 00:44

Bertrand

So you agree that sometimes when group A says to group B 'You have x privilege, therefore denounce yourself and shut up', it is entirely possible that group A is spouting utter bullshit? Perhaps we could try extrapolating that mind-blowing realization to other cases of "privilege" being invoked as a magic spell to silence opposition.

BertrandRussell · 11/03/2018 00:53

“Privilege only applies to white males you see. It's very easy to bang on about privilege when you get to; a) define it and b) frame yourself as a constant victim“

I think you might have missed the point, rather.

WhalesOfYore · 11/03/2018 00:55

Can anyone imagine the equivalent of a Superintendent of Schools in - to select a random example - China putting out a public self-denunciation for having benefitted from, say, "East Asian privilege", even though persons of such descent are no doubt at a relative advantage in Chinese society?

No - because the Chinese haven't lost their fucking minds.

BertrandRussell · 11/03/2018 00:57

“So you agree that sometimes when group A says to group B 'You have x privilege, therefore denounce yourself and shut up', it is entirely possible that group A is spouting utter bullshit? ”

Is any group saying “denounce yourself and shut up”? Apart from some groups of men - often white middle class men- who are actually using their innate privilege to try to silence others?

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