White privilege... really? In schools??!

[stellenbosch]

To quote Bastille, 'the world's gone mad' ...

Just thought I would repeat something from my earlier “ cut and paste bullshit”

““It’s not that the word “privilege” is incorrect, it’s that it’s not their word. When confronted with “privilege,” they fiddle with the word itself, and haul out the dictionaries and find every possible way to talk about the word but not any of the things the word signifies”

To those who are complaining about the poster - imagine that it was a man saying "I have unfairly benefitted from my sex. Male privilege is totally unacceptable". Clearly that would be aimed at making men think about all the things they've never had to contend with - being sexualised at an early age, asked about childcare in job interviews etc etc, - thereby making them more aware of the shit that women put up with and more inclined to use their position of relative power to help change things. It wouldn't be telling black/poor/gay/otherwise disadvantaged men to "shut up", just focusing on a different set of problems, namely sexism.

It's not the best designed poster in the world, but I really really don't understand what the problem is, unless you think that racism and white privilege don't exist.

(Nb I'm sorry if someone has made this exact point before - I haven't RTFT)

@stellenbosch having white privilege doesn't mean that a white person can't be disadvantaged. It just means that as a white person, you have more advantages than a person of colour who is from the same socio-economic background as you. Of course people from deprived backgrounds have it harder than people from rich backgrounds. But a person of colour from a deprived background is even further disadvantaged.

There are lots of different kinds of privilege, and they intersect in various ways. There's no hierarchy and it's not a competition - but it is essential that people are taught to recognise the inherent advantages that come with having certain characteristics (such as being white, male, straight, etc).

I don't love the design or wording on the poster but the fact that you don't understand what privilege means surely is a good example of why it's so important that children are taught about it? How else is anything going to get better?

That film was brilliant except it didn’t deal with girls, which would been whataboutery if it didn’t have girls in it and it was weird not to mention that if a girl won she would only get half the prize money seeing as that is literally true in many sports.

which would been whataboutery if it didn’t have girls in it - nope, still whataboutery.

My issue with the idea of white privilege isn't that I think it's not a thing, it's just that it's only relevant in certain places and isn't a 'universal' as it's often portrayed.

White privilege is usually a proxy for what is actually majority privilege. Try telling a white person in a central African nation that they have white privilege...

I also dislike the focus specifically on race.

There are literally hundreds of different axis of advantage/disadvantage that we could look at.

Class, wealth, religion, sexuality, sex, appearance etc. The focus specifically on race as the cause of all life's woes for certain groups is divisive and misleading.

A PP mentioned that the ability to portray yourself as the perpetual victim and close down any debate to the contrary by invoking 'privilege' is ironically a privilege in itself

I think I'd agree with that 100%.

“A PP mentioned that the ability to portray yourself as the perpetual victim and close down any debate to the contrary by invoking 'privilege' is ironically a privilege in itself”

I’d really like to see some examples of this- it would be much easier to talk about with something concrete to focus on.

PatriarchyPersonified - I honestly can't think of a place where white privilege isn't relevant. Certainly not Canada.

Because your describing majority privilege?

PatriarchyPersonified - nope, white privilege.

Majority privilege? What, like the privilege enjoyed in the UK by middle class university educated white men?

As a Canadian I see no issue with this, especially in the context that it's coming from BC where there are hundreds of missing indigenous women, and at least 2 active serial killers targeting them on the Highway of Tears, and the police can't be bothered to do anything.

As for "China putting out a public self-denunciation for having benefitted from, say, "East Asian privilege", even though persons of such descent are no doubt at a relative advantage in Chinese society?"

Privilege in China, and particularly the privilege of certain ethnic groups is an issue, look up the Hukou system. The caste system in India is a far bigger issue and social movement than white privilege in Canada will ever be. In Africa there are numerous issues between tribes, and more priviledged tribes. Rwanda anyone?

I don't think any of these people think of themselves as "fucking idiots" for discussing ethnic priviledge and its effects.

“In Africa there are numerous issues between tribes, and more priviledged tribes. Rwanda anyone?“

I don’t know enough about this to comment really. But my understanding is that the tribes involved in the Rwandan massacres were artificially created by white colonialists. Which is arguably one of the most extreme examples of privilege available.........

*Try telling a white person in a central African nation that they have white privilege..."

I don't think you have to tell them, they'll experience it on a daily basis.

Bertrand

Exactly. People have a whole host of different advantages or disadvantages based on literally hundreds of different axis, you've listed a few right there.

Reducing down to focus on Race (or any other specific axis only) is simplistic and will inevitably lead to perverse outcomes.

Ironically becuase it's impossible to tell what different advantages and disadvantages every individual has ever faced, the most equitable solution is to treat everybody as an individual, which boils down to equality of opportunity, which is strongly support, not equality of outcome.

BertrandRussell, the Hutu's and the Tutsi's weren't artificially created, they existed in the area for centuries before whites, but the situation in which one was placed in power over the other, was a by-product of colonialism. Much like the Iroquois and the Huron and the Mik'maq & the Beothunk in Canada.

PatriarchyPersonified it sounds like you are saying that we shouldn't discuss race in case that leads us to forget about all the other advantages/disadvantages people face. Is that right?

Toomany*

Not at all, but the focus on race to the exclusion of all other things is divisive and doesn't help anybody in the long run.

"Not at all, but the focus on race to the exclusion of all other things is divisive and doesn't help anybody in the long run."
I don't think anyone is doing that, are they?

I don’t understand why everyone is so keen to be the victim at the moment. We have groups of people from every walk of life claiming to be disadvantaged, and arguing about who has it worse.

"We have groups of people from every walk of life claiming to be disadvantaged, and arguing about who has it worse."

Can you give some examples?

Bertrand

Not on this thread no. But in some parts of society and politics?

which would been whataboutery if it didn’t have girls in it - nope, still whataboutery.

Well not really because it makes the the film inaccurate. When pointing out privilege it’s important to keep all other variables the same.

But it was a brilliant film for teaching about the indirect effects of privilege that one simply takes for granted.

As a black woman I welcome this poster and its sentiments.

Ironically becuase it's impossible to tell what different advantages and disadvantages every individual has ever faced, the most equitable solution is to treat everybody as an individual, which boils down to equality of opportunity, which is strongly support, not equality of outcome.

But treating everyone as an individual doesn't solve the societal problems that cause certain individuals to have less opportunity than others, i.e. discrimination based on race, gender, religion or social class.

Uncomfortable, and certainly not simplistic, conversations about privilege need to be had.