White privilege... really? In schools??!

[stellenbosch]

To quote Bastille, 'the world's gone mad' ...

Of corse I've faced racism but not any institutional, and only very minutely in the workplace once

How do you know what barriers you've faced compared to people who don't even have those barriers?

There are women who say sexism isn't a thing and they've never experienced it.

But that is a thing.

Of corse I've faced racism but not any institutional, and only very minutely in the workplace once.

Just to point out (and not directed at you but rather the whole thread) the district where this poster was put up is 60% First Nations. So we aren't talking about students experiencing casual racism. We are talking about people who are told by the government where they can live, where they can practice their traditions, and what privileges they are allowed to have in their own country! So for many of these kids, having a white woman in a position of power admit that she's there, however abstractly, in part due to the color of her skin, is a MASSIVE thing, that will encourage more kids then discourage.

How can I prove an unprovable ? I would say because it wasn't very hard to get where I am, though I worked hard at school and uni and it would be offensive (and completely wrong) to suggest that I have white co-workers who are here based on their skin colour ?

Well yes of course if you say there is racism in the world we have to say yes, but I'm talking about my life in 21st century UK. The worst I've experienced as an adult was a female co-worker drunkingly asking me if it's true what they say about black men ? I said yes we are faster over 100metres.

In my opinion white privilege is a "thing" in that in this part of the world being white means you are in a privileged position over others. No doubt about it. That said, this is the issue I have with this particular brand of identity politics. If we approach the issue of racism in this 1 dimensional way (i.e. racism is an issue of whites vs everyone else) then we immediately begin the discussion with hostility, remove any discussion around racism between minorities, and in fact give power to the racist segments of white society. The racists I have met (sadly I know a few) use cases like this as justification for their views, "LOOK HOW THEY'RE DISCRIMINATING AGAINST WHITES NOW!"

Of course, this isn't really discrimination against whites, and to compare something like this to the geuine issues faced by minorities in this country is ridiculous, but it is used as a justification nonetheless and people lap it up.

The issue of racism should be approached openly, there's nothing wrong with discussing white privilege, but this notion of all whites being inherently racist and framing the discussion as "whites vs everyone else" is causing even more tensions.

worst I've experienced as an adult was a female co-worker drunkingly asking me if it's true what they say about black men ? I said yes we are faster over 100metres.

Great response!!

Just to point out (and not directed at you but rather the whole thread) the district where this poster was put up is 60% First Nations. So we aren't talking about students experiencing casual racism. We are talking about people who are told by the government where they can live, where they can practice their traditions, and what privileges they are allowed to have in their own country! So for many of these kids, having a white woman in a position of power admit that she's there, however abstractly, in part due to the color of her skin, is a MASSIVE thing, that will encourage more kids then discourage

I was aware of that and of the fact that the most disadvantages group in Canada are not black or Asian but indigenous peoples.

However that poster is appalling.

Firstly - why is it a white woman? The oppression of Canadian indigenous peoples has been at the hands literally and legislatively of white men.

Secondly- what is Canada going to do to follow through on this? Anything being done to investigate why so many indigenous women are killed/ go missing every year?

I am “black” and really have no time for this hand wringing, it’s setting up more divisions and will, quite understandably provoke a backlash. Integration is the key, not group blaming.

Well then tabby if we say I don't have the privilege of being white but o do have the privilege of having two parents who earned decent money, should I denounce my middle class privilege ? Or do we just say everybody is different and we must fight racism, sexism, homophobia etc when we see it ?

It’s not denouncing the privilege, it’s acknowledging that it’s there. I do think there’s an issue with people not acknowledging middle class privilege sufficiently, not acknowledging the huge benefits of developing an elaborated code from a young age. I’m not saying you are a victim, or that you’re any less privileged than the next person. But you’re not privileged because of your skin colour, whereas white people are. You’re privileged for a different set of reasons and I believe it is important to acknowledge (not denounce) all the reasons - but this specific debate is focusing on white privilege.

I don’t know if I’m making my point very clear, sorry. I’m not that articulate. But to make clear - I’m not telling you that you (or anyone else) are a victim. Sorry if it comes across that way

More like judgemental white arrogance from a privileged few.

@anutteridiot could that be due to the fact that the country is predominately white, also you have to look at the whole picture, it takes a certain amount of time , it's what happened with the Irish ? Also how can that be proven unless we go into individual work places ?

could that be due to the fact that the country is predominately white, also you have to look at the whole picture

What difference does that make?

Since White working class boys are most disadvantaged in Uk I scratch my head over this.

Sorry, I find this uncomfortable. There is one thing about teaching about racism, and the disadvantages of ethnic minorities, but to shame somebody about their colour, and make them embarassed for being the colour that they are, is a no.

All the difference when you talk about inequality of finances between races I.e doing better. Also I am honestly say I have worked in places where there have been BME workers who weren't qualified and were there due to race.

@Aeroflotgirl you are 100% correct.

I work in a university and there is a lot of research/stats about how BME students are more likely to be poorly graded by lecturers (which is why we try and blind Mark) and also less likely to participate in seminars due to feeling like people are judging them.

So I can well believe it starts even younger.....ie; in schools.

So raising awareness in schools is good, especially for teachers.

It is baffling that people seem unable to differentiate between the words “denounce” “relinquish” “acknowledge” and “recognize”

Aeroflot but how does it shame or embarrass someone for their race? Every white person has unfairly benefited from white privilege. They benefit from being white, and that is unfair. It is not unfair to be white and it is clearly not making the point, it’s saying the benefits that come with race are unfair. I have unfairly benefited from a myriad of privileges too, just not white privileged. It’s not shaming white people to tell them that they have advantages that poc don’t have? In the same way telling men they live in a patriarchical society is not an attack on men or a form of misandry.

" there is a lot of research/stats about how BME students are more likely to be poorly graded by lecturers "

surely these days, you only submit essays with a number, not a name?

(remembers submitting essays with only initial and surname in the vain hope that sexist lecturer would not mark me down for having a vagina, as he was known to do)

^^ and I am not that old, despite my user name..:)

I think most people would acknowledge that lots of different types of privilege exist, so acknowledging or recognising isn't necessarily an issue.

The alarm bells start to ring for people when they see posters like the one the OP has posted, that seem to imply that a white person who succeeds has somehow 'gamed' the system and must take some kind of personal responsibility for the historic sins of others.

Im all for recognising unfairness and countering it, what I'm not a fan of is measures taken to ensure equality of outcome (BAME quotas etc) that don't address the core issues and actually just unfairly disadvantage someone else instead.

I do think the history of the UK makes this poster less relevant here than in Canada or the US but while privilege is still a thing here and I will ensure my children are aware of that

I feel confused by the poster. If we look at it from a totally black and white point of view, yes of course white people benefit from white Privelige. But what about white ethnic minority’ groups, do they benefit as much as a white non ethnic person? I’m Jewish, female and had a shit education because my reason in life was to marry and have kids. Any attempt at doing my own thing was stamped on by my father. I look typically Jewish and have experienced racism on and off through life. I’ve been bullied in the workplace and have only ever had very low paid jobs because of very sketchy education and opportunity and to be honest I don’t feel my white skin has afforded me much of an advantage. Though my skin colour is one less thing people can throw at me.

Most of my relatives further back than grandparents were killed in the pogroms and the ones who came here were traumatised and only able to work in certain jobs as they were largely uneducated. They came across a shitload of prejudice to the extent my DF to his dying day would never say the word Jew or Jewish out the house for fear of drawing more attention. Our skin is white but do/did we have white privelige? I don’t know what to think or what I’m supposed to think here.