weddings, cutlery, bread and wine

[RebeccaWithTheGoodHair]

I've been at a few weddings recently in lovely hotels with 3-course wedding breakfasts where the bride, groom and a lot of the guests are blatantly confused by the cutlery.

At DBIL's wedding neither he, new DSIL or her parents had a clue what to use. Poor MIL had to whisper what to do to them - and will probably turn up as an interfering MIL in AIBU herself because of it

Whilst I don't think anyone should have to know what cutlery to use AIBU to think the hotel could at least give the bride and groom a few tips beforehand? Maybe in the paperwork so it's not patronising in any way.

If I didn't know I would like to know so I didn't make a plum of myself at my own wedding.

Not much you can do about the guests I guess but it's mighty irritating to find someone has snaffled your bread roll or one of your wine glasses because they don't know which side is which and the ensuing kerfuffle as the spare one is tracked down.

But hey, it’s just dinner in a big hall isn’t it?

It is, yes. Over 50% of the students come from the state system and over 50% of the faculty.

I think if you approach life as laying traps for you then you’re going to struggle whatever the environment.

The world is made up of different cultures. It’s not to trip up the uninitiated, simply customs formed over time.

Yeah. But this isn’t really about ‘different cultures’ though. It’s not a ‘foreign’ culture. We’re talking about British students at British universities. It’s about a culture of elitism that would make the majority of British people feel uncomfortable because they don’t know the arbitrary rules. That’s completely unnecessary.

f they wanted to be inclusive and stop students feeling uncomfortable they could stop all the unecessary 'dinner' nonsense and having to have enough ££££ to have the right suit/shoes/dress/tiara and just have dinner instead! You know a chance to get together and meet other people and chat

What do you think dinner consists of? It’s just a meal at long tables in a dining room. A chance to get together, meet people and chat.

No idea where the suits and tiara stuff comes from, most students wear jeans.

Joinourclub

Of all the 'they should teach it at school' subjects, how to use cutlery 'properly' has got to be the most ridiculous.

Oh I don’t know - why not go the whole hog and make it a core subject like English and Maths!?

A far greater proportion of the students and faculty come from public schools than in the general population. This is also true of some other universities (Bristol is particularly bad).

He still sometimes uses his knife to hold down food then sort of pulls at the rest with his fork and crosses his knife and fork across his plate when he's finished. It drives me mad.

Isn’t this the American way, though?

It’s not a foreign culture, it’s just a different culture. And the more the world globalises the more we have to deal with people with different customs, with neither a sense of inferiority or superiority.

It’s very easy to sit there and claim that there are just a few quick rules they can learn and behaviours they can adopt to fit in. But each of these quick rules add up.

Knives and forks go from outside in.
Glass to your right.
Bread to your left.
Easy!

Those are about the only ‘rules’ that people care about. And even then I can’t think of a formal dinner I’ve been to recently where people would be upset if you used your big knife for your starter.

MushroomPancake

And remember not to use the butter knife to cut the bread roll! You need to use your hands to tear the bread.

Erm...yes. We know! Thank you for the revision lesson though.🙄

When attending a formal conference dinner in China, even though I was perfectly capable of muddling through with chopsticks, someone leant over and showed me what to do. I was a it embarrassed but got over myself and learnt something new. I didn't go 'such snobbishness, what does it matter?'.
The standard ways of holding cutlery, laying a table and most of the conventional table manners are born out of practical albeit old fashioned reasons but are still valid. If we go to the trouble of dressing up, putting on a tablecloth, paying for or hosting a special dinner, is it not worth a little effort on 'doing the eating formally?'.

Public schools are a small contingent among private schools.

There is a greater % of students and staff from private schools than the general population. But the majority of students are from state schools - 57% at Oxford, 63% at Cambridge.

Paie

If you have a funny flat knife type thing thats probably a fish knife, though they are rarely used nowadays.

Couldn’t have been that “swanky” if they had fish cutlery. Everyone knows that it is Non U...

Showmetheelf, I was the same - I was dining with Chinese colleagues who offered to show me how to eat Eastern style. It actually was a great ice-breaker and lots of fun with lots of encouraging nods and smiles.

And they were rather proud of me when I grasped it, and proud to show a little bit of their culture to a European.

Yes I do know the difference between public and private schools. Far more than 63% of the population go to state schools though.

And what percentage of the 63% went to standard comprehensives rather than selective grammar schools?

No wonder efforts towards equality and diversity are so ineffective when so many people are desperate to defend elitism and exclusionary practices.

British universities should reflect the culture of the country as a whole, not a small percentage of the population.

@RoseWhiteTips

whats non u?

clearly not everyone knows, as idk what that means

Paie she thinks she's being clever by referencing it because fish knives are supposed to be 'common'.

U and Non-U are an old thing from Nancy Mitford and supposed to show the difference between U (upper class) and Non-U (everyone else).

So if you call a mirror a mirror rather than a looking glass you are Non-U and the Us could laugh or pity you

God, who is petty enough to care about this stuff?

Yes, the real test of class is what you do when someone gets some rule wrong in my opinion.

Yes, this ^

My friend's mum, who was super posh, was great with that. We were having breakfast in a hotel one time and we had our cereal and the waiter came and asked if we would like tea and/or toast.

Now, who knew, but apparently you "should" (don't give a stuff myself) eat the toast last, after the cereal and you don't ask the waiter to bring it while you have your cereal as it will go cold.

So, I said yes please, tea and toast. And friend's mum said "toast with cereal, what an excellent idea, yes, I'd like some as well please".

Friend told me later that I had done it 'wrong', but she was always far less classy than her mother.

I did, for that one time only, butter my toast in stupid little bite sized pieces from a blob of butter I transferred from the butter dish onto my plate. But I can never usually be arsed with such fuckery.

Why are fish knives common??

...fazed by this...
Not...phased by this...

@RebeccaWithTheGoodHair
Oh wow

I could stick up for the place and say that they were rarely used once during the time I was there but honestly if you're judging somewhere because they use a fish knife and that is way too common for you, you need to judge less and mix with other people more

The butter knife sits on or near the butter, and is used to convey butter to your plate.

Yes.

There may be formal dinners with gowns?
most students wear jeans

So we have all the palavar over which knife to use but they are wearing jeans under their gowns?
Not very formal then is it? Why not just call it a get to know you meal?

A formal dinner is where you go to the trouble to set the table nicely, some decorations, there are several courses and cutlery and glasses to match them and you dress up because its a special occaision for some reason or another. JMHO though.

Paie - exactly!

iamagreyhound - no idea!! Because U people need to look down on Non U people for something or another? Apparently cucumbers were called cowcumbers to those in the know - and you got laughed at if you didn't know that!