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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Angry downstairs neighour

198 replies

maybebaby88 · 06/03/2018 09:01

So a few years ago I moved into my parters flat which he owns. The guy downstairs seemed nice enough, a guy in his fifties. However, occasionally he would shout through the ceiling to shut up if we were making noise whatever time of day it was. I mostly just ignored it.

A couple of years ago we rescued a dog. We already had one, but the new one has been severely abused and tends to go a bit crazy at certain sounds. This happens a few times a day and she will run up and down the hall for a bit crying. This is when the neighbour started gettinf reallh aggressive, basically shouting 'shut the f* up' all the time. My problem is that he does this in the middle of the day. I have become so stressed out and on edge, I keep them quiet until a reasonable time (10am-ish) and even started but he still yells at the slightest thing. Its awful because its got to the point where I end up snapping at the dogs for playing.

To add to that we have just had a baby, and I'm constantly worried that his crying will invoke the same response. I feel like a prisoner in my own home. He shouted the orher day because one of the dogs was trotting around excited to be going on a walk, but it was 11:30!

We dont have a carpet in the hall, just floorboards at the mo as we have really struggled financially, which I know makes it louder, but he shouts regardless of which room it is.

Sorry for the ridiculously long post. But are we in the wrong? If the dogs were constantly barking and running I would understand, but its a few times a day for a few minutes.

OP posts:
BlackBetha · 06/03/2018 10:56

I love dogs, but there's no denying that my two large-breed monsters sound like a herd of elephants when they're playing rampaging around the house (especially if they go upstairs, the whole house seems to shake). If we were in a flat, we'd be a nightmare for a downstairs neighbour.

Definitely look into getting a cheap carpet or some rugs for your hallway, especially as you'll presumably have a toddler running around as well before long. And more walks/exercise for the dogs if you possibly can; I can't overstate how much this helps with keeping them calm indoors (one of mine in particular is a nightmare if he's been even slightly under-exercised).

If the hallway before walks is a particular problem, can you train them to sit and wait for their leads to be put on, instead of running around in anticipation? Or shut them in another room while you get ready?

Eltonjohnssyrup · 06/03/2018 10:57

Ahahaha Freudian, me too now. Hadn’t noticed that. Very punny.

Vangoghsear · 06/03/2018 11:00

Getting a second dog was not a sensible decision as you live in a first floor flat. Especially if finances are tight. I think the logical response is to move somewhere that better meets the dogs needs.

Gran22 · 06/03/2018 11:00

I grew up in a flat, it's fairly common in Scotland. However no one walked around in outdoor shoes, we didn't have fitted carpets, but we had carpet squares, and no way would any of the residents have kept two dogs. One small one perhaps. It called consideration for neighbours.

I used to work as a social housing officer, and noisy neighbours was one of the main complaints we received. People who liked laminate flooring even though it impacted on those downstairs, loud music, screaming and shouting, animals etc., etc. Most of the time it was all about their 'rights' to do as they liked. That's why local authorities have rules about pets in flats, and employ staff to try and resolve disputes. We lived in a detached house for some years, and it was bliss. Now we have a dog next door that starts barking at 6am and can continue indefinitely because its owner is out a lot.

Guavaf1sh · 06/03/2018 11:03

YABU

MaggieFS · 06/03/2018 11:09

Depending on where you are some flats are huge and spacious so no criticism from me for having two dogs without knowing more details, BUT you really should do more to prevent the noise travelling.

YABU If you don't think you need to do anything and don't like getting stressed by his shouting.

I've been on the downstairs end of this sort of situation and it's horrific for mental and physical health not being able to have peace in your own home. Even if 'reasonable' hours, if it's daily, it's soul destroying.

You need to get a carpet. The hollow space between your floor boards and his ceiling acts like a guitar or cello body to amplify sound. It will be far worse for him than it seems for you.

Sorry for being blunt!

Riverside2 · 06/03/2018 11:23

much as I like animals I was really thinking how unfair it is on the man downstairs, rather than the dogs!!

janetlane · 06/03/2018 11:35

you could be reported to the council i think, for excessive noise. Not judging you for dogs in flats but thnik of the noise!

MovingAgainOhWhy · 06/03/2018 11:35

It's not fair on your neighbour to have to deal with dog noise all day, it's probably put him on edge so he's hyper-vigilant to all your noise now. Dogs barking and being noisy could really effect your neighbours mental health. I wouldn't keep two boisterous dogs in a flat tbh either, especially if the noise is heard downstairs, it is not fair on everyone else.

I doubt the baby crying will be that loud through the floor, but noisy dogs is another thing.

Sorry, but I have been a neighbour on the receiving end of noise nuisance in a flat once and it severely effected my mental health. I expect your neighbour has been worn down by it all

mummymeister · 06/03/2018 11:40

If you want to reduce the noise transmission between the two flats then you have to use good quality/thick underlay and thick carpet properly laid. a rug will deaden any impact noise (walking about) but not airborne (dog barking).

if your neighbour is very aggrieved then he could report you to Environmental health. they deal with noise nuisance in England, not the police. they will get him to keep a noise diary and if they see a pattern to the noise and it is of a sufficient duration then they will serve a notice on you. I am an ex EHO. we used to say 20 minutes continuous barking was sufficient to constitute a statutory noise nuisance. shorter incidences of barking would have to be regular and frequent.

also, and this could really affect your partner, the council can come in and do airborne and impact noise assessments to see if the insulation between the two flats is sufficient. they can do this retrospectively - so even if your flat complied with airborne and impact standards when built/converted if it doesn't now they can serve notice on you to do works to increase the insulation between the dwellings. and this can be MEGA expensive.

Please try and be a better neighbour. he will be suffering from noise induced stress if he is now reacting like this. if he makes a formal complaint then if you try and sell your flat this will show up on searches for several years (its one of the questions on sellers information) so could have long and far reaching effects.

if you can afford a rescue dog, then you can afford the carpet. at least it shows your neighbour that you are trying to help matters.

NeedpeacePLEASE · 06/03/2018 11:40

I'm currently in your neighbours position and sorry to say I think you are unreasonable. And you were unreasonable to "just ignore it" when he was first making it known. Did he really only ever shout up or has he complained already before? Before you moved in? Your partner may not have told you.

In fact he has it worse than me! Because you've only got floorboards - that means NO sound insulation AT ALL my neighbours have laminate/wood flooring. And I'm at the end of my tether! One of the causes of noise I'm dealing with is their toddler apparently training for the flipping olympics! Running up and down their hallway sometimes for hours. Your neighbour has 12 feet causing noise for him plus the baby!

It's the never knowing WHEN you're going to be disturbed by the noise, how long it's going to go on for... You say it's only "a few times a day" I'm keeping a diary, my neighbours have said similar - the reality? Close to a dozen times a day every day - it sets you on edge. Plus I bet you've NO idea how loud it is for him, have you gone down to his when the dogs are running about to hear how loud it is? Have you apologised?

2 dogs and a baby is a LOT of noise. It's "thump thump thump" plus crying at I'm guessing all hours? And does the baby crying set the dogs off barking? Whining? Running about?

Get carpeting down in the hallway and make sure your other rooms flooring is as well insulated as possible too.

Train the dogs - pps post highlighting you've had the 2nd dog 2 YEARS no excuse for not addressing the dogs behavioural issues - for the dogs sake as much as anything else! personally from an animal welfare perspective I think it irresponsible to have dogs in a flat. However often you walk them. It's not enough space for them, it will not help THEIR mental health that's why they go "a bit crazy" when they're getting the chance for a walk.

Lack of money is no excuse - you've assessed you have the finances to support 2 dogs and a baby, plus many free goods sites and fb pages often have rugs, runners, carpet off cuts going. In at least 2 years there's no reason you couldn't have saved up/arranged obtaining carpeting/insulated flooring.

And yes the "he should move" comments piss me off too -

1 why should he? He's done nothing wrong!

2 flats tend to be cheaper and in cheaper areas and close to facilities. He may not be in a position to move financially, it may be close to work etc for him.

3 it could easily be argued it be OP'S family that move as they are the ones that want to live a certain way and it's their behaviour impacting on another. If they want to be MAKING that much noise THEY should be in a detached property. If you live in a flat you need to be considerate of your neighbours that's basic human decency!

IF You get vinyl get cushioned and lay decent insulation underneath.

In all likelihood after at least 2 years of this he's tired, anxious, stressed and it's affected both his physical and mental health. I've "only" had it for about 6 months and I'm starting to have falls and other accidents due to the sheer exhaustion from not getting a decent nights sleep! Try and look at it from his perspective.

"Poor bloke. Sounds as if you are driving him quite literally mad."

Personally, based on my own experiences (this is the second time I've had neighbours with hard flooring, the first ones were unaware of the impact and did all they could to not be noisy once they knew. The flooring wasn't their choice they rented) I think it should be law that upper floor flats all have properly insulated flooring. Would greatly reduce neighbour disputes of this type, reduce the stress caused to the neighbour underneath (which would save money in terms of council and police involvement, nhs costs in getting support for the stress etc). It's not a right having hard flooring.

"and every sigh and groan from every thrust, all feckin night long (they were young and very fit, obviously!)." Funnily my neighbours are very angry, aggressive types - guess what's the ONE thing we NEVER hear them do? 😂 - but you have my great sympathy that must be horrendous!

To the pp that suggested giving neighbour earplugs - even earplugs PLUS earphones playing white noise or gentle music doesn't drown out my neighbours. Anyone that hasn't experienced this has no idea just how loud it can be!

Dogs do fine in flats. - very much depends on the size and temperament of the dogs and the level of input from the owners.

However no one walked around in outdoor shoes - ugh can you tell my neighbours please? All 3 of them pretty much permanently in outdoor shoes. The guy is a tradesmen of some type so it's usually steel toecap jobs and she is usually in platform heels!

Riverside2 · 06/03/2018 11:51

@NeedpeacePLEASE

"I've "only" had it for about 6 months and I'm starting to have falls and other accidents due to the sheer exhaustion from not getting a decent nights sleep!"

oh I feel for you. We really need more laws about this kind of thing. I hate it when people say "you live in flats you have to deal with noise". Many of us are capable of living in our flats in a considerate way. As the UK gets worse and worse with flats and overpopulation this will have to be addressed or there's going to be a lot of noise related incidents - I mean violent incidents.

mummymeister · 06/03/2018 11:53

NeedpeacePLEASE - yep, classic sufferer of noise induced stress.

you have my huge sympathies. you can speak to Environmental health and I have in the past served a notice to get carpet put down in a flat. in fact some leasehold flats (even the ones with 99 year leases) do say in them that full carpet must be provided. dig out your lease and see if yours says that. PM me if you want any help and advice to deal with your neighbour issues.

mummymeister · 06/03/2018 11:58

There are laws that cover this. they do take time and effort though to be enforced. the problem is that if you said everyone in flats has to have carpet and underlay there would then be people with allergies saying that they cant have carpet and needing exemptions.

you have to deal with each noise issue on its merits. and if you don't like what Env Health are doing then you can take your own individual action. again its harder still but it can be done.

NeedpeacePLEASE · 06/03/2018 12:00

Riverside - I've lived in flats my whole adult life and at times during childhood too. NEVER had it as bad as now.

Mummy - pm'ing you now thanks

Op - sorry for derail, but yabvu and need to sort this.

User267 · 06/03/2018 12:05

This case from this week is a good example on exactly the issue of the impact of noise on downstairs neighbours where there is no carpet www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/05/noisy-neighbours-must-pay-banker-100000-compensation-floors/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

Not suggesting the £100K compensation would be usual!

ThisLittleKitty · 06/03/2018 12:06

So surprised by these comments! I made a post on another forum about my neighbours 3 extremely noisy chidren in the flat upstairs and I basically got called every name under the sun! Even "evil" for not enjoying listening to 3 kids run up and down for hours. Play with ride on toys in an upstairs flat! It's torture. Anyway back to the op, I think you should get carpet down. I just carpeted a 10 by 9 box room for £50 and laid it myself and I am by no means good at diy, but I managed it without too much trouble (well actually it was very difficult as I did it alone with 4 kids under my feet) but there's two of you so should be easier. And saves paying someone.

Riverside2 · 06/03/2018 12:08

User what an interesting article

sounds like the poor renovation was half the problem in that flat.

in terms of existing laws - no they don't go far enough and they're very hard to enforce and a lot of people have trouble getting hold of EH anyway.

NeedpeacePLEASE · 06/03/2018 12:14

Play with ride on toys in an upstairs flat! - ugh yea I've got that too since Christmas

Also DIY early on Sunday mornings.

ElsieMc · 06/03/2018 12:16

Sorry if its not what you want to hear op, but you really should not have two (one excitable) dogs in an upstairs flat if you want a good relationship with your neighbour(s). To add to that you now have a new baby who will inevitably cry. People have to accept that babies cry if they live in flats but I honestly think it is the dogs that are causing the problems. I don't understand why you took on another dog, a rescue one at that, given your living arrangements and you mention financial issues.

I have lived by dreadful selfish neighbours and these were elderly - think loud piano playing and singing at 3 am, parties with their am-dram friends and music lessons for local kids, violin and piano. Loud singing practices as well. Could take it during the day, but late at night, wanted to kill them. We got a reduction in rent from our landlady it was so bad.

I know you are not doing anything on purpose and you sound conscious of the noise issues but one of you needs to make a move - him because he cannot tolerate noise or you because very close neighbours in flats cannot tolerate your noise.

WhatToDoAboutThis2017 · 06/03/2018 12:20

YABVU, and very inconsiderate and selfish.

I would be furious if an upstairs neighbours dog was running up and down the hall several times a day for several minutes at a time. And then, on top of that, you get both dogs “trotting around excited” when they want a walk, and there’s the baby noise on top of that.

It is massively unreasonable of you to expect someone to put up with this every single day; it’s consistent harassment of his peace and quiet.

Smilesforever · 06/03/2018 12:20

Move. Two dogs in an upstairs flat isn’t fair on this guy or your poor dogs!
You are lucky he is only swearing STFU and not reporting you for animal abuse or to the council for making a lot of noise.

ThisLittleKitty · 06/03/2018 12:20

It's horrendous isn't it. The first time I heard the wheels I thought it's ok they are obviously just rearranging furniture. Then It became very clear that it's wasn't furniture but some kind of ride on toy the kids were playing with, and the screeching to go with it! But apparently on another forum I was an "evil witch" for not wanting little "jonny" to play with his favourite toy that probably helps him to deal with the move!

GrannyGrissle · 06/03/2018 12:22

YABVVVU. This dog's comfort does not over rule downstais man's right to a peaceful life. Why on earth would you have a dog in a flat? You do sound very selfish- Poor dogs, poor neighbour and as someone who has had to put up with neighbours like you (i successfully got them moves by the council) i'm afraid you don't sound remotely reasonable.
Get some carpets down and soundproofing pronto and either get one of those things which calm dogs down or let the poor dogs go to a suitable home.
Your neighbour's next step will be sound monitoring by the council and then you'll be in bother and by then relations will be well beyond repair with neighbour and he may well enjoy retaliating with loud music etc once your baby is here.

Lizzie48 · 06/03/2018 12:26

I think you're all wasting your time haranguing the OP. She's not reading the thread, you're wasting your time now. Or are you just enjoying venting your anger online now.

We all agree she's unreasonable, selfish, a terrible neighbour. But she's not listening so what's the point in saying how VVVVVU she is???

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