To give up on this school

[Bemoreunderstanding]

Looking for advice on next year's high school place.

We live in a small village with a small village primary school. Most children go to the local high school but I chose to send my older child out of area to a similar distance away high school which is in the next council area. We were lucky to get the place as we are as far out as they take. I was hoping to get my younger child into the same school and we have a slightly improved chance due to the sibling link but we are still out of area of course.

At the village school is a lovely mother who has a child with SEN issues (very relevant to this thread) in my younger child's class. This mother spoke to me a while back about which schools I was looking at, as she intended to send her child to the same one, so my child could travel with her child and help him get to school safely.

However as her child has a statement and will understandably take priority over my child. If she applies for the same school, her child will definitely get a place and therefore reducing our chances and as they only just reach the village we are very likely to lose out. If the mother actually wanted the school place that is fine, but she only wants to go to the school which my child is going to and I am feeling frustrated that this is likely to lead to her child attending this school on their own.

The second concern is I want to be kind and understanding and in theory I don't mind my child helping hers. However they both struggle socially and I can't expect my child to look after hers at the level she is expecting. The children are not friends though I encourage kindness and being nice to all classmates. The mother said my child is the only one who is nice to her child.

Thirdly this school is very big and doesn't have a great SEN provision where as the local high school is much smaller and has a brilliant on site SEN. My good friends child loves the unit and how it is fully integrated into the school but there for when she needs it.

Bottom line this mother can and must do the right thing for her child. But hand on heart I don't think the out of area school is the answer. If they go for it best case scenario my child gets in too and has a part time carer role on the buses, walking, lunch time and might make it more difficult for my child to make a friend for himself. As my child has made his first friend in year five, I don't want to pile more pressure on. In the worse case we won't get a place at all and the other mum will be upset her child will be travelling on their own.

I am going to have another chat with this mother and if she is definite about choosing this out of area school I guess I need to give up and put mine in the local high school. If I don't get our first choice we will be pushed into the sink high school in the next village along and I can't risk that.

Or I could explain that we won't get both kids in the out of area school and therefore would she consider applying for the good local school instead, as we really want the place due to sibling attending and whatever happens our children will be in different schools.....but I know that will be rude :(

Tell her the truth . You have nothing to lose . Either way they can’t both attend the same school .

As lots of people mentioned a child with EHCP will go through completely different admission process. His parents will say what their preferred school by the end of year 5 , then local authority will consult school and the decision will be made over autumn of year 6 to plan transition. A child with EHCP where school is named will be admitted automatically BUT and it's a big but, the child with EHCP won't get automatically his parents first choice! Council will consider a lot of things and in reality travel costs could be one of the issues.
I would advise you to do what you plan initially for your child, cut talks about secondary with this other mum and have a chat with your school SENCo about this situation. Tell her openly what other mum is telling you and that put you in a very difficult situation as you don't think that your child fell the same about this another child. Let school to discuss " how to choose secondary school wisely " with her. Don't interfere.
However bear in mind that maybe the out of catchment school was advised for this child already that's why mum is talking to you ( knowing your older child there) . SENCo is not allowed to comment on another child situation but she will hopefully talk to this mum.

It isn’t allowed Porkflute & the school could be in serious trouble if someone picks up on it.

Sounds to me that from your description of your own child's difficulties & the hereditary ASD in your family, that he at least has strong traits so the local school with its good SEN provision is probably the best place for your own child anyway! I speak as a mum of 2 ASD kids btw!

My dgds school is a RC school and they prioritise ALL LACs whatever their religion.

Leaving the misunderstanding of the school admissions process aside, I'm staggered that you appear to be willing to sign your child up to years of chaperoning another child to school. How many threads are there on here with adults objecting to being put upon in this way by local friends or neighbours, yet you're expecting your 11yr old to do it without complaint? Where's his voice?

It isn’t allowed Porkflute & the school could be in serious trouble if someone picks up on it.

I'm not entirely sure what "it" is, given that the post to which you're responding talks about first choice applications for the sixth form. Sixth form transfer applications aren't done via central equal preference processes, are they? What does "first choice" even mean in this context?

In an ideal world, there would be a trusted source of information to squelch misinformation about school and university admissions. But unfortunately, "they would say that, wouldn't they?" plus the willingness to believe friends over facts, means that it's pointless. Anyone who has done university open day work will know that many teachers and parents give prospective students appalling advice, for example, and I have had parents argue with me about my own programmes' admission criteria (in one case, the programme I designed and for which I am currently course director).

It wasn’t for sixth form. It was the 6th priority on the admissions criteria for year 7 - after baptised Catholics, LAC, siblings etc. Linked to from the local council page. So they’re not trying to hide it or anything.

You have to put your own child first, so I think you are right to fill the form based on what you want. Be vague with the other mother, and if it does happen that they get into the same school, be very clear at that point that it is not your child’s job to be chaperone. It’s not fair to your own child.

There seems to be quite a lot of misunderstanding of how naming a school and LAs paying for SEN transport works. This is a general overview:

When an EHCP or statement is written or reviewed, the LA records the child's needs and how they should be met. The document is then sent to the parents who have the opportunity to name the school at which they wish their child's needs to be met.

If the parents and the LA agree that the parent's preferred school is the nearest school that can meet the child's needs, the placement will be agreed and LA is responsible for any transport costs.

The parents can request a different school and the LA must agree to this unless:

1. the school or other institution is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs of the child or young person

2.the attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others 3.the attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

If the placement is agreed on the basis of parental preference but there is a nearer school that can meet the child's needs, the LA is not required to fund transport.

This means the the other parent would be likely to have her choice of school agreed but her child will not necessarily be entitled to free SEN transport if a closer school can meet the child's needs.

I'm not sure this is relevant to the OP's decision but I wanted to make sure that the correct information is available to parents of children with additional needs who may be reading the thread.

If she is wanting to put her child into the school ONLY so that your DC can chaperone her DC, (and that is a gamble since you say it's unlikely that both DC would get the out of zone place) when the local school has the better SEN facility then that is utter madness from her. I'm also surprised that the decisions on SEN admissions aren't based upon which school has the best set up for them?

How do you know no other parent in your village is considering applying and that you are the other lady are the only ones?
Tell her that they only take one a year so that would blow up her plans.
I would be choosing the one that was best suited to my sen child not the one size fits all approach of one following the other.

I think she is very worried about the travelling on buses. I understand that, it is worrying enough for me !

If other village children applied to the out of area school. We would very likely to be higher priority because of the sibling link. Unless it was another LAC or SEN component. But I am just going to wait until we look around the schools in autumn and see what my child thinks about the local one.

After thinking about it over night, I think I am more concerned about how much my child being expected to look after the other child ?

Of course if they were on the same bus at the same time, it would be no trouble to be company and walk together. But lateness, illness after school clubs, other friends on either side could be an issue.

Not concerned about classes it is a massive school and they take suggestions from parents as to students you would like to share or not share with. So if a lot of help was expected, they could be in different classes but if it is just a friend on the walk into school that is fine.

I still don't think both children will get a place and it is better to accept that now and get my child on board on a different school.

I will still put the out of area school as first choice with no expectation of getting that place. I will hope to get one of the 2nd of 3rd choices that will suit my child.

Guess I was hoping to reduce my level of worrying about my child travelling alone, by putting both my children of the bus together and I am a little sad that won't happen now.

I will let the other mother know it is very unlikely for my child to get a place at the out of area school and therefore she can decide if that is the best school for her child, knowing my child will not be going there.

She might decide the school is still the right one for her child or she might change her mind...either way I won't be asking what she decides.

I will be working on getting my child ready to travel alone on buses and safely crossing roads alone so whatever happens next year, we will be ready. :)

After thinking about it over night, I think I am more concerned about how much my child being expected to look after the other child ?

In the kindest possible way - you lost the plot. the other mum asked/suggested this but you don't have to do this at all. This is not an expectation from school/you etc you have to follow.

just pick the school you feel is right and of this is still an issue next September, then put the other mum straight. I really don't see the issue . You are an adult FFS but act like a little helpless child!

Bemore...and thats the thing isnt it. You have no idea who may apply, for all you know there may be 2 or 3 adopted/fostered children who want the village school you want. They will come above your sibling link. Add in 1 or 2 statemented children too. Then add in catchment children. Now far down the list is your out of catchment sibling link?
There is just no knowing in any given year.
There may be 0 lac, 0 sen places needed. There may be 6/7/8....who knows. It changes every year and cannot be predicted unless you know every person who is applying.
All you can do is apply, stop trying to influence the other mum in the hope of bumping your kid 1 space up the list....and hope for the best.

I don't intend on influencing the other mother at all. I don't want her to choose a school thinking my child is going to be attending when it is unlikely to happen.

It would be far meaner to let her be happy thinking both children will be travelling together until next March when the places are released and then drop the fact my child is going elsewhere.

You have jumped to a conclusion you won‘t get a place - you have no idea what the birth rate is for your year group or how many people will apply. If you want this school - put it as your first preference - if there is not enough places - you will get your second preference which I assume is your local school. Don‘t assume you won‘t get it and leave it out! Also, I would tell this mother she can‘t rely on your child helping with the Bus etc as you think it’s too much responsibility for your child.

Yes. I will mention the bus thing too.

I want her to choose the best school for her child. The one that will suit best and be reasonable to get to. Not taking my kid into the equation. I don't want to feel bad if her child ends up travelling alone. It is up to them to consider that possibility.

The more I think about it, the surer I am that there will be no place for us at this school. To many variables might increase and all will push us down the list.

But that is life. I can't expect to get the place we want...loads of people don't get there 1st choice.

We are likely to end up in the sink school (Like 50% of last years class) and if we do. We will stay on all the waiting lists and hope for the best.

I want her to choose the best school for her child. The one that will suit best and be reasonable to get to. Not taking my kid into the equation. I don't want to feel bad if her child ends up travelling alone.

It is not for you do decide or make recommendations as to what school suits her child the best. If Her DC has a statement, many people will be involved in the decision process. You come across as very unpleasant.

Just tell her your child won't chaperone her and mind her own business.

And no, you do not want her to chose the best school for her child but the school which increases your chances into getting your preferred option. This is what the while thread was all about!

You should maybe have an honest conversation with her and tell her that your child will not be able to look after hers. It's unfair to expect it.

porkflute would you mind linking the school criteria you mention (or the LA doc if that’s easier?

I would be really interested too @porkflute.

I caught up with the other mother on the playground this morning and we had a chat.

When the upcoming visit to out of area school was mentioned by her, she asked me what I thought about the school.

I was truthful and said I liked the school a lot and my oldest child is very happy there. But I didn't think my youngest child would get a place there next year, as the school is getting more popular and hence places harder to get.

So she must not rely on my youngest child being on that school bus, as we didn't know which school we would get a place at until March 2019.

She talked further about hoping the children would end up at the same school. That it is important to her, that her child knows other children (preferally my child) at the high school, they get a place for.

I feel for her, all this uncertainty about high school spaces is very stressful. It is good that they will know which school their child is attending ahead of time but none of the rest of the class will know until much later and that doesn't help her plans.

So now I feel much calmer and less responsible. So she will chose her place and we will choose our three options and fate will determine, if the children end up at the same school or different ones.

I have talked to my child and had a chat about how random place allocation are out of area and we need to be looking for a solid 2nd choice which is workable.

Plus I am working on road safety and travelling alone in preparation for Sept 2019, whichever school place we end up with that needs sorting.

But not until October...I am forgetting about high schools until the open days roll around.

Thank you to the people, who posted kind helpful advice.

I really wouldn't worry about this other mother and her child. At most they'll end up on the same bus and you can always talk to the school (if they end up in the same school) about your worries if your child being used as a carer.