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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To give up on this school

150 replies

Bemoreunderstanding · 02/03/2018 21:21

Looking for advice on next year's high school place.

We live in a small village with a small village primary school. Most children go to the local high school but I chose to send my older child out of area to a similar distance away high school which is in the next council area. We were lucky to get the place as we are as far out as they take. I was hoping to get my younger child into the same school and we have a slightly improved chance due to the sibling link but we are still out of area of course.

At the village school is a lovely mother who has a child with SEN issues (very relevant to this thread) in my younger child's class. This mother spoke to me a while back about which schools I was looking at, as she intended to send her child to the same one, so my child could travel with her child and help him get to school safely.

However as her child has a statement and will understandably take priority over my child. If she applies for the same school, her child will definitely get a place and therefore reducing our chances and as they only just reach the village we are very likely to lose out. If the mother actually wanted the school place that is fine, but she only wants to go to the school which my child is going to and I am feeling frustrated that this is likely to lead to her child attending this school on their own.

The second concern is I want to be kind and understanding and in theory I don't mind my child helping hers. However they both struggle socially and I can't expect my child to look after hers at the level she is expecting. The children are not friends though I encourage kindness and being nice to all classmates. The mother said my child is the only one who is nice to her child.

Thirdly this school is very big and doesn't have a great SEN provision where as the local high school is much smaller and has a brilliant on site SEN. My good friends child loves the unit and how it is fully integrated into the school but there for when she needs it.

Bottom line this mother can and must do the right thing for her child. But hand on heart I don't think the out of area school is the answer. If they go for it best case scenario my child gets in too and has a part time carer role on the buses, walking, lunch time and might make it more difficult for my child to make a friend for himself. As my child has made his first friend in year five, I don't want to pile more pressure on. In the worse case we won't get a place at all and the other mum will be upset her child will be travelling on their own.

I am going to have another chat with this mother and if she is definite about choosing this out of area school I guess I need to give up and put mine in the local high school. If I don't get our first choice we will be pushed into the sink high school in the next village along and I can't risk that.

Or I could explain that we won't get both kids in the out of area school and therefore would she consider applying for the good local school instead, as we really want the place due to sibling attending and whatever happens our children will be in different schools.....but I know that will be rude :(

OP posts:
Original poster
Bemoreunderstanding · 02/03/2018 23:08

Just a reminder that I have only mentioned...reduced chance of getting a school place not 'our place, as clearly all places are free until allocated.

OP posts:
AnathemaPulsifer · 02/03/2018 23:12

Sounds like she only wants that school so your child can look after hers. If you are very clear with her that only one child from the village will get a space at the out of catchment, and her son's statement trumps your son's sibling meaning he'd be travelling further alone, she may well give up on the whole idea.

chocolateiamydrug · 02/03/2018 23:14

Would it be acceptable to explain how hard the places are to get

if the child has an EHCP, they won't go through the normal admissions process. It is a completely different process and if they get a place, then chances are they will get transport too.

wildbhoysmama · 02/03/2018 23:16

It's all so bloody complicated down South. In the ( majority) of Scotland if you're in the catchment for a school you automatically qualify for a space. If you want to apply for a school out of your catchment you put in a placement request- if you don't get in your original place is there for you.
All my DC are in catchment schools
( Primary and Secondary) . No bother, no worry, they walk to school and all their local friends go to the same schools.
Admittedly, in some areas house prices rise because of certain schools, but in the main our comprehensive schools are great quality. We got rid of the pfaff of grammar schools/ single sex decades ago and our education system is so much better because of it: Schools are well resourced and Its a fair system.

Original poster
Bemoreunderstanding · 02/03/2018 23:16

I am not going to increase the worrying for the other mother. I have accepted that she will be applying and will receive a place at the out of area school. I will mention that I feel my child is very unlikely to end up at this school and I am hoping to get a place at the nice local school (both true). Just so she doesn't get upset when her child is traveling alone next year. I do not expect this to change her application as the out of area school is lovely abet very big. Plus if our council does SEN travel help, that will mean he can travel with someone.

OP posts:
RomaineCalm · 02/03/2018 23:23

The best advice that you can give to the the other parent is to research the school that best meets the needs of her child.

You can suggest that she shouldn't base her decision on the school that you may be allocated as no one can predict what that will be. It shouldn't matter where your DC ends up as they may both have different requirements.

FrayedHem · 02/03/2018 23:23

I doubt she'd get SEN transport to the out of area school, unless she could prove the nearer school couldn't meet her DC's needs (and if they state that too). And if they are both mainstreams and the local school has a SEN unit, it would be more difficult to prove without having had her child in it and the placement fail.

NualaCassia · 02/03/2018 23:40

If your child doesn’t get the sibling link place, will this mother be expecting your older child who is already there to look after her child instead?

I would.
A) Put down the preferred school with sibling link as 1st choice
B) Put down other nice school as 2nd choice
And
C) Put your older child down on the waiting list for 2nd school just in case your younger one gets a place there (although this depends on if you would want to move the older one)

I would have no problems explaining to the mother that it is very unlikely your child and her child will both get a place at choice 1 and even if they do, your child will not be acting as a chaperone for hers.

Original poster
Bemoreunderstanding · 02/03/2018 23:41

Apparently she needs "Your child has a statement of special educational needs that identifies the provision of transport in Parts 5 and 6;" to get free transport. Wonder if that applies to them.

OP posts:
HorsesCourses · 02/03/2018 23:41

School applications are ridiculous. Parents do not have a 'choice', They have to apply for the best school that they think their child has a chance of getting into, with hardly any of the necessary information about their chances of getting in.

The School Run article on equal preference system should be sent out to all applicants. Too many people don't understand how admissions work.

My DS has a few friends whose parents thought they were being clever to only put 2 good schools down. They got into neither so were allocated their catchment "sink". I think they genuinely thought, If we just put 2 down, they'll HAVE to give us one of them....

whyayepetal · 02/03/2018 23:42

OP, I think you need to tell the other mum that there are no guarantees that your DC will end up at the same school, whatever your stated preferences. With 18 out of 30 not getting a place at the local school this year, this is very likely to be true, and she will see that.

Then go about applying for your DC - first choice should be your genuine first choice etcetera, as PP have said. The key is the extent to which your DC meets the admissions criteria, so check these carefully before applying. If you meet the criteria for the schools you choose, then this would be the starting point of an appeal should this be necessary.

Good idea to alert other mum to possibility of available transport for her DC - a kind thought, and it might also help her to start seriously considering travel options for her DC other than using your DC as a support, which would be unfair on your DC. Good luck, and here's hoping both DC will go to the school that suits them best.

Original poster
Bemoreunderstanding · 02/03/2018 23:43

No mention about the older sibling. That would not be reasonable to ask for their help. Anyway they more often than not, off with friends or after school clubs !

OP posts:
bostonkremekrazy · 02/03/2018 23:45

OP - why are you researching what the other mum needs?

surely your job is to be looking at what you need to be doing for your child now.
let her worry about her kid, you worry about yours. neither actually impacts the others school place.

Original poster
Bemoreunderstanding · 02/03/2018 23:45

I do want both children to be at the best school for them.

OP posts:
Original poster
Bemoreunderstanding · 02/03/2018 23:47

Why not help her ? It won't affect my child either way, will it.

OP posts:
soapboxqueen · 02/03/2018 23:53

Horses my LEA does a really good booklet that goes with the application and explains it all really well. It's just few people bother to read it.

bostonkremekrazy · 02/03/2018 23:54

If the child has an EHCP it will all be sorted at the annual review by the LEA caseworker. She will actually need to do very little, and she will have help by the named caseworker. IF there is an EHCP in place.

Kinsorino · 02/03/2018 23:57

OP what makes you think you can influence her decision anyway? She probably knows more about the system than you if she has already been through the EHCP process and you clearly don't understand the normal admissions process, nevermind the one for children with EHCPs
Just concentrate on your own child, as honestly, you're coming across as a busy body, and not a nice one either.

Lalliella · 03/03/2018 00:10

She is unlikely to get any help with transport if her child goes to a school which is not the catchment school, that is only normally available to the catchment school, SEN or not. Tell her this, and also that you’re unlikely to get your child in at the further away school, it might put her off.

planetclom · 03/03/2018 00:14

This sounds like the sort of bullshit story about foreigners taking all the places a British child could have. Her child's admission to the school has absolutely no bareing in your child getting in.
Secondly her child if it is over 3 miles away from the school they will get free transport as their nearest available school whereas yours won't as you chose this school. Thirdly it is secondary so highly unlikely they will be in the same classes.
Instead of worrying about her child and lying just get on with your life and don't be a obstructive to someone who probably doesn't have a fucking choice which school her child goes to, we don't get second and third choices we have to just hope a school will say they can accommodate our child.
my 2 go to schools 30 plus miles apart one 15 miles in one direction and the other 17 in the other. They are twins with the same conditions. So don't lie and don't be a dick.

PorkFlute · 03/03/2018 00:22

Really interested in the people who are saying that in England schools can’t prioritise first preference applications. I was looking through admission information for several local schools in the north of England yesterday and one of them definitely had first choice applications as the 6th priority. It was a Catholic school so religion, LAC, named on EHCP and siblings came before. Also found it odd that Catholic LAC were prioritised over non Catholic LAC as if they are more in need!

soapboxqueen · 03/03/2018 00:29

pork RC schools often prioritise Catholic children in this way. I agree that it always seems like an odd thing to say but doubt it would have any impact in practise . Which school are you looking at that had preference as a criteria? If it was the 6th criteria would it have any impact?

PorkFlute · 03/03/2018 00:31

Maybe not but I was just interested as other posters said it wasn’t allowed.
I know Catholic schools will prioritise Catholic children but I guess I just expected all LAC would take priority regardless.

Original poster
Bemoreunderstanding · 03/03/2018 00:37

Thanks for everyone's advice.

I will fill out form as I always intended. I will explaining to the other mother and our child, that we are very unlikely to get into the out of area school. I will be crossing everything hoping we don't end up at the sink school instead. But I have 6 months not to think about it, until it is form filling time.

OP posts:
HateIsNotGood · 03/03/2018 00:54

Honestly OP don't worry too much about the child with SEN and his/her DM - the likely outcome is that they will be really fucked over and in the end desperate for an school place that can provide (promises) some support for the SEN child/student.

It probably seems to you that the paramount thing for the DM you are concerned about is that her DC goes to the same school as your DC but probably in her reality, you and your DC aren't as important as you think you are, that DM is being put through wringers you don't even know about.