To give up on this school

[Bemoreunderstanding]

Looking for advice on next year's high school place.

We live in a small village with a small village primary school. Most children go to the local high school but I chose to send my older child out of area to a similar distance away high school which is in the next council area. We were lucky to get the place as we are as far out as they take. I was hoping to get my younger child into the same school and we have a slightly improved chance due to the sibling link but we are still out of area of course.

At the village school is a lovely mother who has a child with SEN issues (very relevant to this thread) in my younger child's class. This mother spoke to me a while back about which schools I was looking at, as she intended to send her child to the same one, so my child could travel with her child and help him get to school safely.

However as her child has a statement and will understandably take priority over my child. If she applies for the same school, her child will definitely get a place and therefore reducing our chances and as they only just reach the village we are very likely to lose out. If the mother actually wanted the school place that is fine, but she only wants to go to the school which my child is going to and I am feeling frustrated that this is likely to lead to her child attending this school on their own.

The second concern is I want to be kind and understanding and in theory I don't mind my child helping hers. However they both struggle socially and I can't expect my child to look after hers at the level she is expecting. The children are not friends though I encourage kindness and being nice to all classmates. The mother said my child is the only one who is nice to her child.

Thirdly this school is very big and doesn't have a great SEN provision where as the local high school is much smaller and has a brilliant on site SEN. My good friends child loves the unit and how it is fully integrated into the school but there for when she needs it.

Bottom line this mother can and must do the right thing for her child. But hand on heart I don't think the out of area school is the answer. If they go for it best case scenario my child gets in too and has a part time carer role on the buses, walking, lunch time and might make it more difficult for my child to make a friend for himself. As my child has made his first friend in year five, I don't want to pile more pressure on. In the worse case we won't get a place at all and the other mum will be upset her child will be travelling on their own.

I am going to have another chat with this mother and if she is definite about choosing this out of area school I guess I need to give up and put mine in the local high school. If I don't get our first choice we will be pushed into the sink high school in the next village along and I can't risk that.

Or I could explain that we won't get both kids in the out of area school and therefore would she consider applying for the good local school instead, as we really want the place due to sibling attending and whatever happens our children will be in different schools.....but I know that will be rude :(

I do understand how our admissions system works. But as over half our village class did not receive ANY of their three options, you can see why I am worried. If you have more kids than there are places in an area, it is a problem.

Plus I was clear from the start that the other child is a higher priority than mine. I know we might not get a place even if they don't apply but our chance goes down if they do apply.

@fleshmarketclose

Yes, anything over two miles is what they provide transport for. Some of our children travel a similar distance to yours and further.

you have been told numerous times that you are wrong here. you are wrong.
put the school you want first. put the other school second. neither school knows what preference you have given. both schools look at their criteria. are you near enough? is there a sibling? they both go the education authority and say, for example, yes. education authority then look at what you asked for and offer you your higher preference.
that is the law
but carry on if you are determined to make your life more difficult.

When my first child was going through secondary admission, I carefully explained the equal-preference system to anyone I heard making bad decisions because they didn't understand it (complex city with complicating factors).

They didn't listen.

With my second child, I just shrugged my shoulders and let them get on with it. This thread is precisely why: people who have swallowed the "there are schools you have to put first" pill just won't be told. It's a waste of time explaining equal preference and, sadly, it's one of the ways in which parents with social capital dominate "better" schools. It's not that they play the system, it's that they understand the system.

Of course if the children were at the same school I would expect my child to be kind as much as possible, it is only the right thing to do. I know how much she is worrying, I share her worrying at a slightly different level.

Anything

The LA cannot refuse to provide SEN transport under two miles if the SEN criteria is met.

For distance related they can choose to be more generous as yours clearly is both on distance and age

The out of area school is definitely further than 2 miles away. I will let her know about possible help with transport.

Did these people put their catchment school down?

Everyone usually says always put your catchment down as when you don't thts when you get out in sink schools as those are the ones that have spaces.

as over half our village class did not receive ANY of their three options, you can see why I am worried. If you have more kids than there are places in an area, it is a problem.

Yes, it is a problem. I live in an area where you can put six preferences and still some people did not get a school they had listed. In fact, some people (about 10% of the class) have no offer at all as yet. So I do understand. However, this problem is completely unrelated to the order of schools on each child's list because that would be against the law.

You don't need to give up, you just need to list the schools in the order that you would like to be considered for them. If you don't qualify for a place at School #1 you will be considered for #2 and so on down your list. You can't predict how many children from your village will/won't get places.

There is lots of good advice on the Secondary Education board about admissions. You cannot influence your friend's choice - just concentrate on your DC. If asked directly just give a shrug and a a 'not sure yet what we'll do' sort of answer.

Yes, all people put the catchment school 2nd or 3rd. They were offered a sink school across the valley....ridiculous.

But if you keep building houses and not keeping up with schools places, it will catch up as a major problem eventual.

this child won't care what school they go to and my child does

That is an awful thing to say OP, you sound incredibly selfish. How do you even know that? And how is it relevant?

Whatever school she decides on, transport would make a big difference. Will look into this in more detail and pass to the other mother.

SEN transport is only usually provided to the nearest school that can meet the child's needs. If the parent wants to name a school further away, their choice will be accepted unless there is a very good reason not to but the parent is then responsible for organising and funding transport.

It is going to be a long year, but it gives me time to help my child think about other school possibilities. If we get the out of area school it will be an unexpected bonus.

But if you keep building houses and not keeping up with schools places, it will catch up as a major problem eventual

This is the real problem.

It's heading tht way around here too. Distances have shrunk massively

I would reiterate my point - focus on your child and your choices.

You cannot say what your friend should/shouldn't do, nor should you be giving advice since you are not unbiased.

If you do get to a situation where both children go to the the same school then you can address your concerns about travelling together/being friends/supporting the other child but you are making issues that may or may not actually exist.

It truly amazes at how many times the OP has been told that her understanding of admissions is flawed but still doesn’t accept it.

OP many PP’s are correct. England uses the equal preference system BY LAW. All LEA’s must use it.

By not accepting/understanding this you are going to do yourself out of the best chance to get the School you want. But if you’re sure you are right and everyone who knows different is wrong then crack on.

I am not going to say or do anything, I just wanted to let steam off in a controlled environment. I already said the out of area school is our child's 1st choice, I just don't expect to get it.

all people put the catchment school 2nd or 3rd. They were offered a sink school across the valley....ridiculous.

All this means is that in your village you are too far away even from the catchment school to qualify for a place. Nothing else. THE ORDER YOU PUT THE SCHOOLS IN IS UNKNOWN TO THE SCHOOL AND HAS NO RELEVANCE TO WHERE YOU ARE OFFERED A PLACE (unless you foolishly put a school you don't want above one you do because you have a mad idea that putting it first will help).

If you want your child to go to the out of area school, put that one down. I wouldn't bother tryting to persuade the other mother to apply for the good local school, sounds like her mind is already made up. But I would tell her straight that your child won't be able to look after hers at school. It could become an awful burden on your child if the other one is being led to believe he will have a bff at the new school from Day 1.

1. You are wrong about the choice order thing. Totally. But it is entirely possible that other people were all higher up the criteria than the kids in your village if they are not even getting into catchment school.

1. Talk to the woman and tell her it's really unlikely that your kids will both get into the school on the basis of how it usually works. Start letting her down gently.

Remember though your sibling link will probably trump applicants applying on distance criteria, in your village, and living much closer. Check the stats, you can get them through an FOI if they are not published. Much more reliable than anecdotes on people's choices

1. I'd simply lie tbh. Her expectation of your child's support is unreasonable.

If you do get to a situation where both children go to the the same school then you can address your concerns about travelling together/being friends/supporting the other child but you are making issues that may or may not actually exist.

Mmm I dunno. If this other woman is building her entire school choice on where OP selects, I think it's a good idea to make it clear to her now (if she brings it up again) that OPs child isn't going to be tied to hers or expected to be friends, and how unreasonable her expectation is. It's a difficult conversation to have but could save a lot of stress later.

Please listen to the admissions experts who’ve already posted telling you how the process has to work by law. You are wrong.

If those kids didn’t get into the “catchment” school then there must be more kids that meant the criteria better than them. It’s shit, yes. But nothing to do with where the parents ranked the schools on the application.

Apply for the school that you feel best suits your DC. Don’t think about this “one place for a child in our village” nonsense. If your child is in the top whatever number on the list of children who apply based on the published criteria then they will get a place. If they’re not, they won’t. Same goes for the other child although if they have an EHCP that names the school they’ll jump to the top of the list. Nobody is taking “your” space. It’s not your space unless your DC gets in.

I think you are worrying unnecessary and being quite unfair about the other parent; your post come across as an attempt to whip up disapproval for her.

The fact is that you can both apply to which ever schools you choose, and that the outcomes are out of your hands.

This may make you feel anxious, but it is terribly unfair to project that anxiety by trying to manipulate another parent's application.

Your child may or may not obtain a place and that is quite separate to whether the other child gains a place.

Of course your son is not and need not be responsible for caring for the other child, and the other parent has no means to enforce this - unless she is also riding on the school bus in a supervisory role 🤔

Try to deal with your anxiety in a way that is not unkind or unfair to others. Gosh, the admissions process really brings out the word in people.

I think I'd turn it round on her.
Along the lines of how will her dc cope when your dc isn't taking the same bus home. You see they may be ill, they're planning on visiting granny after school 1-2 times a week in the opposite direction, and ds1's friend's mum has offered to take them a lift in her car with her two (so no more space in the car) on the days she's working...

And put down whichever school first you feel he'll be better at.