to ask if anyone on here regrets going back to work after dc, and not being a sahp?

[mammyoftwo]

Context: It's a snowy day here..........beautiful stop-you-in-your-tracks-to-look-at-them snowflakes.....it's spent playing outside, coming inside for home baking, snuggling by the fire with books and an all round "good day".

(For full disclosure, I fully acknowledge we have plenty of "not good days" with two toddlers).

But anyways, it got me to thinking...............................................so often on here I read threads about "I don't want to give up my career for my children"/"Do you regret being a sahp" etc, etc etc....... you get the gist.

So today, having had a "good day", I'm going to be bold and brave enough to ask it.............................................does anyone back in paid work after children regret it?
I'd have hated to miss out on all that we did today. Things aren't easy, we've made sacrifices in spending for one parent to be "at home" but it's a choice we made as we believe it works best for our family.

I am a big believer that parents should have more time to be actively involved with their children Checklist, both parents though. Your son may not have liked been with a childminder, that is a valid feeling for him to have, but he had two parents to hold to account for that not just you.

That would be my criticism as how things have gone since women have had all these so called “choices”. Men have generally continued on as before which is what needs to change. The fact that your son blames this on you is sexist pure and simple and is feeding from the culture that perpetually has women as having entire responsibilities for the family and domestic life. A culture that is still absolutely the cultural norm to a greater or lesser extent everywhere in the world to the absolute benefit of men, like your son, everywhere and often to the detriment of women and girls.

The answer to me is a drop in the standard working week for everyone. Then far more people will have more time to fulfill other roles be that parenting, other caring roles even volunteering etc.

"You dumped me with a child minder!"

I'd have quite the conversation with my grown up son if he dared to say this to me about the adult activity of working. Does he generally think the world should revolve around him? Does he resent his dad working too?

Checklist well as long as he isn't planning to have a job and children then or he'd be a hypocrite as well as someone who is horribly rude to their mum.

If my kids ever say anything like that to me, checklist, they will receive a solid piece of my mind. But they won't, because they are not brats.

The US is crap for maternity rights, but I've also heard it can be easier to get back into employment after a career break than it is here. That may be another reason for more SAHPing there. The equation looks different. If you're getting 5 minutes maternity leave and no flexibility, but you'll probably be able to get a job you want 3 years down the line, you might well decide to take the 3 years out.

One reason that is, accurately and sensibly, given by a lot of UK working mothers is protection of future prospects. We as a society are not very good for that, for women (and it usually is) who take time out.

There are a number of MN posters who are eager to tell us about how their career, earning potential or both blossomed after taking time out of the workplace, and they were fine to get back in or to earn more money than they did before. I believe them, not least because being part time has freed me up for some more lucrative part time sideline stuff that I couldn't do if I worked full time and had kids. But I can't help noticing that most of them did it a while ago. The noughties were a different planet, employment wise.

Yellow I largely agree with what you're saying, about patriarchal societal expectations about women and caring and work.... but for me it was a genuine choice not to work in paid employment once I had DC.

Yes my DH couldn't do his current job/hours without me at home but like I said upthread we've been together for decades so way back when we were both nippers we discussed what we wanted and I said if we ever had children I wanted to stay at home with them while they were little. DH was always more than happy with that as he personally believes it is best for small children. So we planned and arranged our lives that way in preparation.

Would you be supportive of women who chose to SAH in situations where it is a genuine choice or do you feel that the only way to model gender equality is by both parents working?

If it makes any difference, DD regularly sees (and helps where she can) DH with the laundry, washing up, vacuuming, cleaning and ironing. We are a team and both pitch in around the house.

I will add that it was one of the reasons I switched from a career in Psychology to Nursing - because I think Nursing is one of the few remaining careers where you can take time out of without it adversely affecting your long term employability.

Obviously in the short term I have given up my registration. But I can get it back if I want it and get a graduate nursing job within a few years. And then start where I left off.

Maybe it's because many ward and department managers and specialist nurses are women and mothers themselves, so are more respectful of and value the caring work that SAHMs do. I've certainly had several managers who've taken many years out to raise their families and when I questioned them about whether it would affect future employability (i.e. Would it influence them when interviewing a potential candidate) they said it wouldn't bother them. Maybe because the work of nursing itself is caring orientated?

*DS does not look back on it, as good modelling of women, having careers and financial independence at all! He respects far more what I achieved in voluntary work, fitted around my school age children; than my paid profession. Now grown up, his verdict is (resentfully):

"You dumped me with a child minder!"*

He sounds very sexist, does he never say his dad "dumped him with a child minder"?

WRT nursing I suspect, as a non-nurse, it's a mixture of a shortage of nurses generally, things not changing quite as quickly as in some other jobs, the ability of nurses taking time out to still do a bank shift every fortnight so not lose touch entirely, and the caring side of it. I know it's quite common for nurses to spend a few years nearly but not quite SAHing, with the odd bank shift here and there. Don't you only have to do about 5 hours a week to keep your registration up?

I'm a solicitor. If I took a few years out everything would have changed, but there's no reason I couldn't relearn it. Though it would be really hard. Employers just tend not to be very keen, and so if you're in a specialism or at a level where there's a surplus (I'm not) it's harder to get them to take the chance.

Beetle last time I looked it was 450 hours work and 30 hours study over 3 years (you have to sign a registration declaration every 3 years to say you've met your minimum registration requirements). So you can sort of spread it out however you want

Which is so family friendly. What's that, 1 bank shift a month average? Very flexible.

Would you be supportive of women who chose to SAH in situations where it is a genuine choice or do you feel that the only way to model gender equality is by both parents working?

I'd like to ask that question which Abso posted too. What if the instinct to be with your children is stronger than the instinct to return to work? I think this is the case for many women, far more so than it is for men. Should women fight that and go back to work despite themselves?

Wow @ Checklists son. What a rude young man. I would be very disappointed if my adult DC was that rude to me even more so if it was only aimed at me and not their father. Luckily although my DC doesn’t always agree with every decision DH and I make, they know that ultimately we always make decisions with their best interests at heart.

My own parents worked around our school hours so were pretty much always there when we were, however, on rare occasions we would need external care. Nevertheless, even from a young age I knew that needs must and understood they had to earn to keep a roof over our heads and feed us. I was taught the value of money quite young and understood it had to be earned and didn’t fall from trees. I also knew they loved me and would never ‘dump’ me anywhere.

What if the instinct to be with your children is stronger than the instinct to return to work? I think this is the case for many women, far more so than it is for men.

I think many would argue that the "instinct" is social conditioning as a result of patriarchal society.

I'm not fully convinced on that argument. I think millennia of evolution have hardwired mother and infant pairs to respond to each other physiologically, hormonally, emotionally and neurologically in a way that father-infant pairs do not. I don't think it needs to be that way after infancy/early years because from an evolutionary perspective we are designed to live in wider kinship groups where childcare is shared between extended family. Unfortunately modern life is usually not arranged like that anymore and families find themselves quite isolated and having to pay for that "wider tribe" of support through formal childcare, or else care for their children in relative isolation (I mean as in taking sole responsibility).

This is why I personally have a problem with the approach that values paid work above all else in society as I think it further reinforces this imbalance in people's lives.

Wouldn't it be lovely to have longer paid leave (2 years) or job shares or arrangements whereby 3 or 4 families all share childcare between them like in a "tribe" set up?

Abso, I think this instinct applied to me when I decided that I couldn't leave my one year old dd in a nursery with a complete stranger - I went back and got her...I could hear her screaming...it just didn't feel right to me, my instinct was to be near her. I will probably get criticised for having admitted this but I really do think evolution thing can have a part to play...and yes when my children grew to about 3, my instinct wasn't as strong and it was lovely to watch them socialise at pre-school etc.

And yes we rely on formal childcare if we need it - we have absolutely no extended family to rely on...times have changed but perhaps the fundamentals have not for many. But if our primary needs are catered for...food, shelter, etc are we are then at the same time needing also to satisfy other needs...the need for mental stimulation etc. or in some cases job satisfaction...you can see how a collision may arise in our drives/needs for some mothers (though not all).

Apologies, I digress, its interesting though I think.

Also
There is a crisis in Nursing recruitment and retention compounded by the gov failure to fund nursing education.
40% of students dont complete their course due to stress/financial difficulties.
Trusts are exploring other routes into nursing .
Return to Practice is one of them-currently very few places are funded .
Those who think Nursing doesnt change are absolutely wrong-its extremely challenging to keep up with the pace of change and the idea that being a SAHM has any bearing on your suitability to enter the profession is utter tripe and the usual patronising bollocks nurses face
In any interview Ive lead it would be noted as would any other career break and then it would be onto questions that actually have relevence to the profession.
With regard to Bank work most have minimum shifts per week in order to keep you on their books /practice safely.

Checklist if you son really behaves like that then you have done a very poor job

the idea that being a SAHM has any bearing on your suitability to enter the profession is utter tripe and the usual patronising bollocks nurses face

I never actually said that. I wasn't saying that being a SAHM was somehow evidence of suitability to be a nurse or somehow relevant experience. I was just saying that in my experience, and particularly as a band 6 research nurse working closely with the nurse specialists and managers, that it wouldn't mean an automatic "cv in the bin" situation, because many of them had taken 2-20 years out themselves to raise families.

But I agree with you on the nursing crisis - it's one of the main reasons I don't know if I want to go back anyway!

‘Abso, I think this instinct applied to me when I decided that I couldn't leave my one year old dd in a nursery with a complete stranger - I went back and got her...I could hear her screaming...it just didn't feel right to me, my instinct was to be near her. I will probably get criticised for having admitted this but I really do think evolution thing can have a part to play...and yes when my children grew to about 3, my instinct wasn't as strong and it was lovely to watch them socialise at pre-school etc.’

I felt just like this too. I mean no disrespect whatsoever to anyone who uses a nursery, i certainly considered it and would never judge anyone else’s decision to, but for dd it didn’t feel right.

It wouldnt be a consideration -negative or positive .
Recruitment is way more robust than that .
If someone has relevent experience and skills that are up to date and can evidence that then they will be shortlisted.

LAorbust yes that was exactly my point. Throughout this thread PP have said that in their professions taking anything longer than mat leave would mean they simply wouldn't be able to renter their professions and job applications with a 10 year gap would go straight in the bin. That was my point, in nursing, if you've held onto your registration or have done return to practice/repaeated undergrad course then you will be taken on skills/experience etc. And your career gap won't count against you in the application process

I went back to work when my son was 5mths old, I'm a nanny so was able to take him with me but it was hard having to put someone else's child first and feeling like I never got to do anything just for him and hated the days he was at home with daddy or nanny and they got to do fun stuff with him. When DD1 was born I went back to work because I thought financially I had too I hated it. I got sacked when I told my boss I was pregnant with dd2 and I panicked about how we would cope with 3 children and me not working but it's been fine and although we have had to make sacrifices and being a sahm is exhausting and can feel like drudgery I am so much happier and our family life runs much better.

You cant take a 10 year career gap in Nursing-you would have to undertake a RTP course -few and far between and usually you cant have more than 5 years out -this is a requirement to do the course.
Nurses are required to revalidate every 3 years -providing practice hours,evidence of CPD,feedback from colleagues for the previous 3 years.
You cant step out for 3 years-the NMC dont allow you to pay to keep your name on the register while not practicing anymore .

Yes I know all that, that's what I said??!

Abso, you have not addressed Beetlejizz or "LAorbust*'s point about how you maintain your nursing registration every 3 years without doing bank work or providing practice hours, evidence of CPD, feedback from colleagues for the previous 3 years.

Perhaps you do bank work?

I havnt retained my registration....!

I gave it up, I signed myself off the register. I said that up thread and have never said otherwise. I said that if I wanted to return to nursing (which at this point I don't think I do anyway) then I would re do the postgrad course (I could afford to self fund it) and start again. And that from my experience talking with nurse managers and specialists that a long career gap wouldn't go against me in the application process when applying for a graduate job.