to ask if anyone on here regrets going back to work after dc, and not being a sahp?

[mammyoftwo]

Context: It's a snowy day here..........beautiful stop-you-in-your-tracks-to-look-at-them snowflakes.....it's spent playing outside, coming inside for home baking, snuggling by the fire with books and an all round "good day".

(For full disclosure, I fully acknowledge we have plenty of "not good days" with two toddlers).

But anyways, it got me to thinking...............................................so often on here I read threads about "I don't want to give up my career for my children"/"Do you regret being a sahp" etc, etc etc....... you get the gist.

So today, having had a "good day", I'm going to be bold and brave enough to ask it.............................................does anyone back in paid work after children regret it?
I'd have hated to miss out on all that we did today. Things aren't easy, we've made sacrifices in spending for one parent to be "at home" but it's a choice we made as we believe it works best for our family.

And I'm not saying that everyone who works in a childcare setting needs a degree/MSc/PHD (!!) I just mean that a higher level of training in terms of relevant things - like good nutrition, how children learn and form attachments, basic H&S awareness, and intelligent/emotionally aware and responsive staff - will naturally lead to a higher level of care delivery than a childcare setting devoid of those things imo

To me a mum who works is a failed mum.

Now see that's just inflammatory bollocks

Does anyone else get sick of the line "I get to watch my babies grow up" from SAHPs? Like those of us who work don't see them grow up..

seahawk I don't know I've never said that as a SAHM, but I know my DH who works 60-70+ hours a week would openly say that he misses out on aspects of our DD growing up.

Of course he sees her grow up overall, he's home most nights during the week on average and around at weekends, but by the nature of the fact that he doesn't spend as much time with her as I do he does miss things

Abso One can still use their education to positively benifit their DC. Which in turn benifits and contributes positively to wider society. Like, in my own personal example, I feel my working experience and education enhances my ability to be a good mother.

I have no doubt that you are a better mother for your work experience and education. The waste is reflected in the first 2 sentences. By being a SAHM, you only contribute indirectly to wider society through your dc. However, WOHM contribute to wider society both directly by being in the workplace using their relevant experience and skill which is directly relevant to their job and also indirectly through their dc using their experience and skill which is helpful for parenting.

This statement makes no judgment on the intrinsic standalone value of a SAHM. Of course a SAHM has value. However, the waste is because the SAHM could contribute more to wider society through her education and experience in a skilled job, but she chose not to by focusing on her narrower domestic sphere. She could have done both but chose to do one and thus limit her contribution to society (you were a nurse - what a loss!) and influence in the world.

I am of course assuming the SAHM has a choice and was not forced into it.

blueshoes your point seems to hinge on the fact that paid work is the most valuable way to contribute to society. I see what you're saying and it's a common theme in western society that places monetary value at the heart of everything.

I personally disagree. I think there are many many ways to contribute positively to society without necessarily having to be in paid work and using ones professional skills etc. Are you saying that adults with learning disabilities who don't work are "limiting their contribution to society and influence on the world"??

Sadly most people seem to think this way and it is such a loss. One summer between my degree and masters I worked in an assisted living home for adults with learning disabilities and had an amazing summer. These people brought so much joy and had so much to offer the world. It's the same way that the elderly are devalued by western society. No one seems to care about their experience and wisdom because they are not part of the working world they are "invisible".

So what if I only contribute "indirectly through my DC"? Isn't investing in our worlds future citizens incredibly important? (Just look at Finland for example, their education system is the best in the world but they make a point of emphasizing joy and pleasure at school. Teaching children about poetry, art, music - lots of the things UK schools are cutting in the focus on "results" and "achievement". The Finnish are conscious in their education system that they are creating their future citizens. They want a creative, thoughtful, artistic and kind population. Not just one focused on achievement and work).

Would it change your view if you found out I also did volunteer work? What about the fact that by me staying at home it enables my husband to "contribute" by working in a way that he couldn't without my support? What about the fact that I support the local economy by paying for music classes for DD, and support the local library? Here in the states I am also part of a momsclub that requires a certain number of "service hours" that is community service like donations, charity work and spending time in the local elderly care home etc. When we return to the UK this summer I fully intend to train as an NCT breastfeeding supporter and when DD starts school, to do some volunteer work.

Are those contributions to society not of value?

To me a mum who works is a failed mum. My husband earns the money and i look after the boys and home, that's how it should be. How would you feel if your son's wife was working because your son didn't earn enough money?

Congratulations! This is officially the most idiotic comment I’ve read on MN!

I can't think of a single intervention that made more difference to my general happiness than going back to work after maternity leave. I'm glad I took the full year off, but I'm even gladder that I went back. I love my days at work, and I would be miserable without them.

I guess the thing that bugs me is that so many people don't even acknowledge that caring for one's own children is a full-time and valid occupation (and ergo being out of paid work).

I'm a SAHM to school age kids and I don't think this is remotely true. It's true for a few years when they're young. The trouble with being a SAHM for those years is that it makes it very difficult to return to any kind of career once they don't need 24/7 care.

In the short term the SAHM role is valuable for your kids, but maintaining financial capacity is also important for them. Mainly SAHP roles enable WOHP roles to increase their earning capacity, which is almost always a pay off for the WOHP and often a pay off for the family unit, but it involves risk for both the WOHP and the financial resilience of the family unit.

*involves risk for the SAHP and...

blueshoes In fact, the more cerebral type might find it a little more frustrating to be around very young children - I speak for myself of course.

Oh please. Read that back. How fucking patronising.

The trouble with being a SAHM nowadays, is that society does not value the role at all - no matter what you’re dealing with eg chronic illness or disability in children.

Then when you try and go back to work you find professional qualifications have expired, and you are no longer able to work in that role. And are almost laughed at for the very idea of it. So really women are forced to keep working at least part-time.

But at the same there’s a lot in the news about adolescent mental health suffering. I’d like to know if there’s any link to the amount parents have to work these days. That’s clumsily put, and not meant to offend - but it will. It’s really just observations on society.

Yes I do. But only because my children are now grown up and I know how quickly the years pass while they are little. But I only regret the early years. I'd definitely don't regret not working once they started school. I realise some people can't work because they can't afford holiday care or have children with additional needs or illness of course etc but I find it hard to understand why anyone doesn't want to work if they can. I do think that having a choice to do so or not must be nice but also think that I wouldn't like to have an OH who was quite happy not to work if they were able to.

How would society valuing the role look in practice though? I don’t think society values any role in particular. Do you think private companies should be compelled to give jobs to returning mums for example? I suppose flexible working rules could be tightened up a bit.

I work and I don’t feel valued - I don’t know what the answer is really.

They should read I definitely don't regret working once they were school age.

Well this thread shows you that no matter what you do, other women will patronise, belittle, and judge you. Talking of the influence these people have on their children, no matter what stance they think their choice of work gives them, or what role models they think they are being to their kids, I hope their poor kids don’t grow up with their attitudes. Not the great mums they think their choices are making them them when they treat other people like that.

blueshoes- do you really think that most jobs are "contributing to society." Many are yes, but if some insurance office, estate agency, media firm, HR company, retail company advertising agency closes, do we all bemoan the loss of their great "contribution to society"? Or does "society" not actually give a toss?

The fact is, most people go to work for the money and that's it. If they get some job satisfaction, great, but let's face it, most jobs only matter to the person doing it. The vast majority of jobs are replaceable and only of "value" within the context of that organisation.

I did have a job which supposedly "contributed to society," but anyone who has ever worked in Social Servives or the NHS knows, how disillusioning it can become. There is so much you want to do, but your hands are tied by regulations, red tape and budgets.

After I had 4 DC, I felt as if I could make more difference to their individual lives because I could follow through 100%, rather than being another "bod in the machine." I feel that I'm incredibly fortunate to have had this option. I know in my case, if I'd had to divide myself between the kind if work I did and my own four kids at home, I would have been a more distant and stressed mum. We all only have so much energy. I can cope with the lack of the "career" because I see it for what it actually is. I could not have coped, psychologically or emotionally, with relying on someone else to look after my children. That would have probably broken me and been my biggest regret in life.

Not everyone is a corporate type or motivated by money or business. I'm bored to the back teeth with that kind of stuff. It's not real to me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, are all kinds of people in the world, making all kinds of contributions. Unless you are finding the cure to diseases or solving world poverty etc, you are not really in a position to comment in anyone else's "contribution to society."

Someone caring for an elderly relative is probably of more value to society that 99% of office, retail, agency jobs.

I don’t regret being a sahm, but I do regret doing it for so long it’s difficult to get back in to the workplace.

Life has passed in a fast whirl and if I had my time again I’d have gone back to a part time job when the youngest was around 7/8. I didn’t think about it then. I am looking for a job, although am quite specific, and in four months have had just two interviews.

Life plods on for me very happily, but the icing on the cake now would be a job 3 or 4 days a week.

Personally I loved being a SAHM when my DC were little. But when they started school it was important for me to return to work (not really for financial reasons, as we were used to managing without my salary by then, but more for my own feelings of self worth) and obviously taking the time out can make that harder. I was lucky enough to find a job I love which fits pretty well with the kids, but if I hadn’t been able to and was now doing something I find boring for the next 20 years or so, for the sake of those few years at home with my kids, I think I would be regretting my choices.

i would regret it every day if i had gone back to work after having my boys. To me a mum who works is a failed mum. My husband earns the money and i look after the boys and home, that's how it should be. How would you feel if your son's wife was working because your son didn't earn enough money?

Bless you. Well, I know how I’d feel if my children grew up thick enough to hold views like this.

Also I think the comments related to contributing to society probably relate to the tax working people pay to cover the cost of societies services.

My working means I employ childcare so that leads to employment for
1 person, probably generating around £800 a month tax contribution, and I pay close to £2,500 a month in tax and NI. That’s a pretty good contribution isn’t it?

1ndig0 Brilliant post.

You hit it spot on.

Many of these "important jobs" are vacuous making crap and services that no one actually needs.

Did OP ever come back? (I have read about 3/4 pages but not everything, so apols for not RTFT). Tbh the SAHM / WOHM is such a false dichotomy, and really unhelpful. I have done both (SAHM experienced on mat leave and then an almost two year career break, and I am now lucky enough to work flexibly and part time... This will probably change again when both mine are school age).

On career break to be SAHM (which I chose after inheriting some money, as didn't want to go back at 12 months as with my first) I had fabulous days where I totally loved my time, every seemed to work well and I could see the benefit to our family. On other days I was bored, grumpy, miserable and the children were as well. Guess what? That's the same now WOH, except perhaps I feel more balanced having intensive time with children and time to focus on work. The work of a SAHP isn't massively valued I agree, but it isn't as simple as WOH V SAH and one being the right choice for everyone, all families, for all time.

And i had a nice time in the snow, just taking the kids to school and picking up by toboggan/playing after school (school/nursery not closed), I think a whole day of it might have done my head in though! (That's just me, others would love it!)

I’ve read this thread with real interest. The OP was quite right about the general tone on MN being set by mums who return to paid employment either full time or for a substantial part of the week. Unsurprisingly the rise in cost of living means dual income families are now the norm. But on reading many threads it’s also clear that those that “go back” are keen to identify only the positives for this decision or the fact that they had no choice. It is clear many of those that have posted here could have arranged/altered their outgoings differently and many people plan in this way prior to children (borrow less/savings/smaller house/flat/cheaper rent etc) precisely because they want to at least give themselves a choice when their MAT leave is up. What the choice is for many is that on balance working is preferable. So the OP is right to offer a counter thread. The difficulty is that the counter argument crosses many taboo lines (whereas the “return to work” narrative is broadly supported by society and seen as practical and common sense) in that it implicitly makes those arguments that are rarely articulated such as: children under 5 (and certainly under 3) benefit the most from (full)time with mum/dad rather than childcare, that taking your child away from the CARE of a loving intelligent person and leaving them under the long term SUPERVISION of someone else (who also has 1-3 other little ones to supervise) is not best for them, that strong healthy attachment with parents/children is not a given that just occurs (it takes time), that the rise in anxiety issues in children/the rise in tutoring in even primary aged kids is likely to be linked to the fact parents are no longer setting their children up as well before school as they did and, unsurprisingly, nurseries/pre schools cannot match what parents could do one to one. Lastly, two main points stand out. In the rush of life it’s easy to lose focus of what is actually important. Like, when you are on your deathbed important. The time with family is the most precious thing we have. Also, although the OP started the thread off the back of a lovely day - I think the opposite is just as true. When it’s a really bad toddler day and everyone is climbing the walls it’s then that I really know I’m right to be with my kids when they are little. I wouldn’t want anyone else sorting them out and I know that no nursery worker would have the patience, time, investment in their future or love that I do to really do my utmost to settle, soothe, explain, tell off and generally deal with them in those difficult moments. Plus who actually cared and looked up to their parents because of their job title when they were little? Teenagers possibly might begin to be interested but no toddler ever thought about what their parents did - it was just “work”.

Sprinkles - again though, tax is a grey area because a family with one high-earning parent is likely to be contributing more tax than if two parents earned that same income between them.

How much healthcare, SS input does your family use? Do you or did you ever claim any kinds of benefits? Do you use state schools? How long is a piece of string?

I pay more tax on income from properties than I would have if I was working full-time. I just don't kid myself that I am of greater "value to society" for doing so.