I don't know how I feel about abortion anymore

[sirlee66]

I've always been very pro-choice. A woman's body. A woman's right to choose.

I'm currently 34 weeks pregnant with my first and now I think my thoughts are changing.

I believe the cut off is 24 weeks? There was a lovely lady on here the other day whose waters broke and she gave birth to a baby girl at 25 weeks! If a baby can survive that early... It just seems...wrong!

Maybe the cut off could be lowered. I started feeling flutters at about 15 weeks so maybe before then.

I don't know what the answer is. I still feel really strongly that ultimately, the mother should decide but I just can't get past babies surviving outside the womb at the same age as a baby that could be aborted.

Maybe it's just pregnancy hormones. I also can't stop think about the poor women who have to make that decision. It must be so awful and I just want to give them a big hug.

I guess my question is, AIBU to not really know how I feel about it?

I am definitely absolutely pro-choice, whilst knowing there is a vanishingly small number of reasons why I would ever consider an abortion myself. I don’t think there is any conflict in holding those views either emotionally or logically. No one ‘chooses’ an abortion, it is usually that sometimes an abortion is the least bad choice out of the choices available. And I have a great aversion to desperate women dying and being maimed by illegal dangerous backstreet abortions as my stepdad remembers clearly from his work as a doctor before the abortion act was passed in 1967.

I also struggle with Iceland celebrating the fact that no babies with Downs Syndrome were born last year

Who was celebrating? Don't repeat the anti-choice rhetoric as if it were fact. It's not even true. Iceland only has a population of 330,000 people and has one or 2 babies born every year with Downs syndrome.
What is your issue with those stats?

I do think that being pregnant makes you think more deeply about abortion Sorry Hamish... but I did smirk and think "No shit, Sherlock" when I read that

I don't like the idea of abortions beyond 12 weeks especially when there are so many people desperate to have children - it would seem better to have more babies to put up for adoption

Really? So not only should we force women to be pregnant and give birth, we should also remove their children from them, potentially causing severe emotional trauma? Sounds fantastic.

As others have said OP, you have got it totally wrong by projecting your own subjective experience onto this question. Hardly anyone will choose an abortion at 24 weeks, but will instead abort before 12 weeks. The majority of abortions at that stage (and by the way, abortion in the case of severe fetal abnormality or risk to life is legal as late as necessary) are where there is a severe risk to the fetus which will not survive or will be very disabled. That is completely understandable- the state gives piss-poor support to people with disabilities and their carers, plus who would wish to have a baby knowing that it would suffer severe pain and would have no quality of life?

You are pregnant with a much wanted baby. A 15 year old victim of rape who has hidden the pregnancy from her parents for months will not feel the same way. Nobody is forcing YOU to have an abortion, so I cannot see that your views should change at all just because you are now pregnant.

*picklemepopcorn I agree, not sure when aborting disabled babies became bragging rights

Abortion is a dark, nasty business. Not so much very early ones, but the longer gestation ones raise huge ethical points. I know a doctor who on a gynae rotation had to perform them. I will not go into it here, as it may trigger someone, but there are things she took away from it and never got over.
I don't think that any woman goes into an abortion frivolously. Early abortions form the majority of abortions. There are much less issues with these, yes women struggle to decide, they regret it, but the physicality of it is quite easy in terms of recovery.
Longer pregnancies, and terminations at 20 weeks are very very rare when not for medical reasons. There are a number of psychosocial problems with these, and women are subject to pressure at that gestation, to do it quite quickly. There become issues passing the foetus the later it goes, and I agree with you that abortion for social reasons approaching the legal limit is very very uncomfortable. I feel sick for the loss of a baby.
However even though these are my thoughts, I am unmovingly supportive of the right of the mother over the right of the child, because I think to view unborn babies as having more rights than a mother would take away womens' human rights and a freedom that if refused would be hugely controlling of women.
It is a dark world as I said. Many of us feel as you do. But there really isn't an alternative at all.
As it happened I had antenatal depression with two pregnancies and wanted late abortions with them. But I have since learned that I am incredibly influenced mental health wise by hormones, and am glad I didn't proceed. I spoke to someone at Marie Stopes and the procedure is very difficult at that stage.

I said: 'I started feeling flutters at about 15 weeks so maybe before then.' A suggested limit which didn't seem as severe as 24 weeks when a baby could survive outside the womb. I suggested 15 weeks because, Like I said before and @BumpInTheOven explained so well: it affected her quite badly as she'd started feeling flutters

You haven't told us why you think that your feeling badly about it should affect everyone else?

I think either you are pro choive or you arent. You can't take something add a shed load of conditions and then claim to still be pro choice.

The number of late abortions is very small. And the decision is between a woman and her Dr. It's not up for the public to decide based on how they felt pregnancy was for them.

As science developed there will he says if keeping younger and younger babies alive. Tbh sonetimes just because we can doesn't mean we should. For every 23 weeker that is now fine there will be many with a huge range of disabilities ranging from some miner issues to full time round the clock care required and unable to communicate or do anything independantly.

People can't base their decisions on the outcome of other people they have to do what is right for them.

Abortion is a dark, nasty business

No, abortion is an overwhelmingly safe and necessary medical procedure and a fundamental human right.

@itstimeforanamechange

I don't like the idea of abortions beyond 12 weeks especially when there are so many people desperate to have children - it would seem better to have more babies to put up for adoption.

I'm pro-choice. Pregnancy made me more pro-choice. My baby was very much wanted, but I suffered horrendous sickness that nobody would do anything about - up to twenty-something weeks all I thought about all day was if I eat/drink now will I keep it down and expended a lot of time and energy on trying to manage it. I lost a lot of weight to the point that my rings were falling off my fingers.

Then I developed pre-eclampsia. I was induced and found the whole thing incredibly traumatic - to the point that I've chosen not to have another child. My blood pressure didn't go down after my baby was born and I had to take blood pressure medication for a couple of months.

I also had a third degree tear and had to be stitched in theatre.

If someone wants to give up their baby for adoption great, but it needs to be a choice because pregnancy and childbirth have potential consequences, some a lot worse than my tendency to relive the whole bloody thing and continuing anxiety at the possibility of ever being pregnant again.

Thanks so much for your responses everyone – I have to go out now so wont be back this evening. This has really helped and I've realised that just because you are pro-choice, doesn't mean your pro-abortion.

I definitely do think being pregnant has made me question it. hormones everywhere However, I'm incredibly thankful to have not been put in a position of needing one and, touch wood, never will. So wether I'm pro-choice or pro life – it really has nothing to do with me anyway.

Thanks again, everyone.

You've misunderstood, Phelan. I said: 'I started feeling flutters at about 15 weeks so maybe before then.' A suggested limit which didn't seem as severe as 24 weeks when a baby could survive outside the womb. I suggested 15 weeks because, Like I said before and @BumpInTheOven explained so well: it affected her quite badly as she'd started feeling flutters

Yes, so exactly as I said, you decided that the limit should be lower than 15 weeks because that’s when you felt flutters. So you think the abortion limit should be based on when you, one woman, felt what may or may not have been a foetus moving. Why should a law with such huge impact be based on one person’s individual experience of pregnancy? Like I said, some women feel no flutters at all so working with your logic the abortion limit should be raised to 40+ weeks.

I felt the opposite to you OP. Going through my pregnancies and experiencing severe hypemesis, a very painful miscarriage, complicated childbirths and PND made me feel even more pro choice than I did before. It was a truly invasive and all consuming experience and one that I massively struggled with despite wanting my babies. The idea of being forced to continue with that against my wishes is abhorrent to me.

I don't think abortion is a human right tinky winky. Not at all.
And I'm not referring to all abortions as dark and nasty. I am referring to late abortions specifically, for social reasons, if you read up with Marie Stopes you fill find that it is a major medical procedure with risks to the mother. The non-NHS work around abortion pushes legal limits and has much less consideration around morality; the argument for the needs of the mother over the pregnancy are quite weak.
I am pro choice. It is mostly safe, and apparently more safe than pregnancy to term.
I find it annoying when people always use the rape and underage argument. It is equally acceptable for a married mother of 2 to decide on an abortion, as it is a schoolgirl or someone hugely vulnerable. Women's choices need to be the same regardless of who they are.

Reading this thread OP has made me realise how little I actually knew re abortion statistics. I was very much of the same opinion as you after having my first (currently 33 weeks with my second) but still pro choice.

Seeing how few actually happen at 24 weeks and why makes you realise why they happen at all

Stitch that's exactly how I felt. Like an alien had invaded me, sick, ill, horrible. I still feel traumatised by my last pregnancy and was sterilised during birth to make sure it didn't happen again. I love my kids, I sometimes wish I could have another, but another pregnancy would have made life awful for all of us, given what it does to me.

I don't think abortion is a human right tinky winky. Not at all

I disagree with you and so do Amnesty International. I think they are more qualified to judge than you are.

There is only ever one good reason for an abortion.

To me it's because it's what the mother wants or needs at that point in her life.

I never really understand how this debate rumbles on, and how other people feel they should be able to have a say over another woman's body and emotional wellbeing.

'I think this' and 'I don't believe', well bully for you. Don't have an abortion.

For me, it's not an option I would take. I just couldn't. I do however fiercely protect my right to make that choice for myself and not have someone else's belief system enforced on me.

My niece had a baby at 23 weeks and three days. She was in Special Care but is absolutely fine. None of her pregnancies were full term. One was 26, one 28 the other 32 weeks all children have reached there milestones within the expected time. I have always thought 24 weeks was too long. Consultants can waiver with unexpected disabilities. I was told this when my child was thought to have Spina bifida. The results of the blood test were high and at 24 weeks I had a amniocentesis. I chose to continue and my only daughter was born without it.

I find it annoying when people always use the rape and underage argument. It is equally acceptable for a married mother of 2 to decide on an abortion, as it is a schoolgirl or someone hugely vulnerable. Women's choices need to be the same regardless of who they are.

Of course, but the underage thing could go some way to explaining why someone chooses to have an abortion at a relatively late stage of the pregnancy. Of course every woman has the right to choose, but a married mother of 2 who decides that she does not want a baby is much more likely to have the termination before 12 weeks. It is necessary to keep the 24 week limit because some women will be in denial about their pregnancy for various reasons and will not seek medical help until later. If you lower it to 15 weeks as the OP suggests, those women would be unable to access a termination.

I have always thought that an abortion is an option to end an unwanted or unviable pregnancy... I always said I would have one if needed, indeed when I was pregnant with my 4th child I made an appointment at the clinic, had made my mind up 100% to not proceed with the pregnancy and was ready to get it done.... when having the scan they couldn’t find her and thought she may be an ectopic... it took 2 months for them to tell me the pregnancy was going “well” and by then I couldn’t go through with it. My husband had the snip so I hopefully wouldn’t be in the same situation again. My reasons for not having the baby were valid as are other woman’s reasons and it was not an easy decision..... it would be hypocritical to condemn anyone for the choice I very nearly made. There are certain things regarding abortion I don’t necessarily agree with but I keep those opinions to myself whilst understanding that everyone’s views are different... peoples views on abortion are rarely black/white... good luck with your pregnancy x

I feel very unsure about abortion - I seem to hold two opposing feelings on it.

I am pregnant and was worried about what might be found at the 20 week scan. I already have a child with a disability and I wanted a another sibling for him but would not have been able to cope with another child who might have a more severe disability. I would want the option to abort in that case.

On the other hand, I do see the baby in the womb as being a life and it seems wrong to end its life. I've had a few miscarriages at around 12 weeks and saw the babies and buried them.

But then, I think its very wrong to force a rape victim to some young person to go through with a pregnancy. Or if a baby is incompatible with life it should be the parent's choice if they want to go through with the pregnancy or not.

I don't think its fair to force someone to go through with a pregnancy just because there was one time they were careless with contraception and now they have to deal with the consequences of that forever.

I also don't think you can simply say to someone who is pro-life that what decisions others make should not concern them. If you believe the baby in the womb is a life you can't easily ignore that - even though the baby can only survive in the body of the woman who is pregnant.

I'm in Ireland so we get to vote on this issue soon. I will vote to allow abortions up to 12 weeks even though a huge part of me feels it is wrong, especially as the weeks go by. I am an atheist and dislike the influence the Catholic church has had on Ireland so my feelings are nothing to do with religion.

I was always pro-choice in a very detatached way until I went through pregnancy, birth and holding my tiny baby. I am not completely pro-choice, it can be such a difficult time and is not one that should be forced on women.

starlightafar
I don't think abortion is a human right tinky winky.

Body autonomy and the choice of how to use it is absolutely a human right.