I don't know how I feel about abortion anymore

[sirlee66]

I've always been very pro-choice. A woman's body. A woman's right to choose.

I'm currently 34 weeks pregnant with my first and now I think my thoughts are changing.

I believe the cut off is 24 weeks? There was a lovely lady on here the other day whose waters broke and she gave birth to a baby girl at 25 weeks! If a baby can survive that early... It just seems...wrong!

Maybe the cut off could be lowered. I started feeling flutters at about 15 weeks so maybe before then.

I don't know what the answer is. I still feel really strongly that ultimately, the mother should decide but I just can't get past babies surviving outside the womb at the same age as a baby that could be aborted.

Maybe it's just pregnancy hormones. I also can't stop think about the poor women who have to make that decision. It must be so awful and I just want to give them a big hug.

I guess my question is, AIBU to not really know how I feel about it?

But she’s not doing that. You’re inventing again. She’s questioning the consistency of the behaviour and beliefs of individuals who advocate both (or more) policy positions, rather than saying that one of those policy positions is incorrect as a result.
yes she is saying their argument is flawed because they are not acting consistently with their claims of the argument with relation to guns war and capital punishment. she is.

smoove so in your eyes it is perfectly rational and reasonable to be against abortion but in favour of the death penalty?

It would also be helpful if you used paragraphs and punctuation. Your posts would be easier to read.

its also called appeal to hypocrisy she is calling them hypocrites she might be right but its not an argument against their arguments on abortion.

Of course it isn't - and it isn't intended to be. It just makes them less credible as people. I would have far more respect for someone who is anti-abortion, anti-war, anti-firearms and anti the death penalty. Hypocrisy is not an attractive trait and these anti-abortion pro-death penalty fanatics are hypocrites.

Also capital letters are a good thing.

its also called appeal to hypocrisy she is calling them hypocrites she might be right but its not an argument against their arguments on abortion.

Sigh. No one has said that. No one has said ‘they are hypocrites, which means they’re wrong on abortion.’ You continue to twist things.

Talking about someone’s hypocrisy is talking about their hypocrisy.

No one here has said that their hypocrisy makes one of their arguments right, or another wrong. We make our decisions and arguments about those on their merits.

The hypocrisy of their arguments (that life is sacred before birth, after that more dispensable) makes them hypocrites. That’s it. Seriously. Let it go, read properly about logic later, and just get on with calling us sinning killers.

its a women's right to decide simple.
this thread has been derailed its clear saying someone rightly is a hypocrite does not make them wrong on the issue even though they are wrong on the issue.

Pro-lifers are as worthy of contempt as racists. OK, the young, silly, sentimental female ones could maybe merit a little bit more leeway, but any male pro-life activist is always a woman-hating, sexually dysfunctional, bigoted loser. What they are always fighting for is women to be under the control and ownership of men, because they hate and fear the concept of women having autonomy, particularly sexual autonomy, and try to dress it up as concern for 'babies'.

Too right, SGB, too right! I just read an article about women giving birth on their backs. A man commented, that it's not creepy to want to witness 'the miracle of life' and anyone who believes otherwise is not a father, to which many males replied it's about supporting a woman giving birth in whatever way is best for her, not a man's experience of childbirth. Amen!

No one has said that. No one has said ‘they are hypocrites, which means they’re wrong on abortion.’ You continue to twist things.
umm apart from pointy things who said these anti-abortion pro-death penalty fanatics are hypocrites.

Smoove what are you on about? People have pointed out that believing in the sanctity of life for the unborn whilst supporting the killing of the born and being against policies that help feed the born is a hypocritical stance, which is true. What is your argument?

They are hypocrites, smoove. I stand by that. I did not say that their hypocrisy makes their arguments incorrect - but it does make them inconsistent and therefore less credible than the arguments against abortion from someone whose position is consistent.

I hope that is sufficiently simple for you.

Is your reading comprehension really that bad, or are you doing this intentionally?

Yep. It makes them hypocrites. It doesn’t affect the inherent morality of either the death penalty or abortion. It just makes people with inconsent positions on them hypocrites.

Yep. It makes them hypocrites. It doesn’t affect the inherent morality of either the death penalty or abortion. It just makes people with inconsent positions on them hypocrites.

so were agreed then its irrelevant to the discussion on abortion and the poster that brought it up derailed the thread?

She's doing it intentionally Jassy.

Same as she did in her previous usernames - picking a small bit of the argument and twisting and derailing with it.

so were agreed then its irrelevant to the discussion on abortion and the poster that brought it up derailed the thread?

I think talking about the consistency or inconsistency of the most vocal people’s policy positions is pretty important. It helps with deciding whether those people are worth listening to.

I think the person who kept banging on about logical fallacies they didn’t understand rather than engaging on the merits of the arguments posters had made were the biggest contributors to the derail. Along with those of us (and I include myself) who threw food under the bridge.

She's doing it intentionally Jassy.

Aye. I’m starting to think the posting style is assumed as well. Occasionally the mask slips.

its also called appeal to hypocrisy she is calling them hypocrites she might be right but its not an argument against their arguments on abortion

It IS an argument against their position on abortion! If you say you are pro life and all human life is sacred and killing is wrong, but also say its fine to kill criminals and kill people in war, you ARE a hypocrite and it does undermine your position on abortion.
Is that not totally obvious?

I think talking about the consistency or inconsistency of the most vocal people’s policy positions is pretty important. It helps with deciding whether those people are worth listening to. i bet you did not know George Galloway is pro life as was Chris hitchens.

i bet you did not know George Galloway is pro life as was Chris hitchens.

Relevance?

I had an abortion at around 8 weeks and although I know it was the right decision at the time it will live with me forever.

It was and I believe it will always be the hardest decision of my life. I can’t imagine how tough a situation it would be to have to even consider a late termination.

i bet you did not know George Galloway is pro life as was Chris hitchens

Does anyone listen to George Galloway? I am sure that he is a misogynistic piece of shit so his opinion does not surprise me too much. Very easy for him and CH to have strong opinions on something that they will never experience or need to worry about for themselves.

Reminds me of something funny I saw on twitter commenting on a news headline. The news headline was 'Can women be trusted with abortion? Two men weigh in'. Someone had commented saying 'Can dentists be trusted to perform wisdom tooth extractions? Two janitors weigh in'. Frankly, I am very uninterested in what men think of abortion given its lack of relevance to their own lives.

Yah I think a lot of women struggle with the decision. The public view of abortion and the perspectives around it often don't represent the reality IMO. It is a real medical and sometimes surgical procedure. It involves huge changes of hormones. It isn't just like flicking a switch and going back to not being pregnant, there are after effects for many women. Depression, menstrual problems, pain. Not that all women feel those.
I don't believe you are at all alone in your being affected by it forever. However you can only do what you can do.
I think abortion is a highly secret act, probably down to some of the negativity on here. But I escorted a friend to Marie Stopes and realised how common it was, and wondered how many people we knew had also been in that position. There were women who were on their 3rd, mums of other children, teenagers. I will remember a girl came from Ireland and had to leave the same day and so couldn't have anaesthetic or sedation. She was very upset and in a lot of pain.
Women are punished enough for their fertility. Although I sympathise hugely with those affected by infertility and pregnancy loss.

George Galloway despises women: that's one of his defining characteristics. But his opinion is no more relevant than anyone else's.

If anyone was in any doubt that George Galloway is a disgusting misogynist, this is his take on having sex with a woman who is asleep or unconscious:

"This is something which can happen, you know. I mean, not everybody needs to be asked prior to each insertion."

He famously stuck up for Julian Assange, arguing that it is merely 'bad sexual etiquette' to have sex with an unconscious person. He accused a rival political candidate about lying about being abused within her marriage because he knew her husband and he was a 'good guy' and 'real' abuse victims would call the police and not put up with it.

I am so unsurprised by his view on abortion. He gives not one shit about women- they are just fuck-holes and incubators to him.

surferjet It’s interesting reading this thread.
Quite a few pro choicer’s wouldn’t have an abortion themselves, or have never had one.
So really, they have no idea how abortion affects some women

So? I know how another pregnancy would affect me and that is not good, it would ruin me, so abortion it is
I know im not the only woman who would feel this, hence why every woman should get the choice