I don't know how I feel about abortion anymore

[sirlee66]

I've always been very pro-choice. A woman's body. A woman's right to choose.

I'm currently 34 weeks pregnant with my first and now I think my thoughts are changing.

I believe the cut off is 24 weeks? There was a lovely lady on here the other day whose waters broke and she gave birth to a baby girl at 25 weeks! If a baby can survive that early... It just seems...wrong!

Maybe the cut off could be lowered. I started feeling flutters at about 15 weeks so maybe before then.

I don't know what the answer is. I still feel really strongly that ultimately, the mother should decide but I just can't get past babies surviving outside the womb at the same age as a baby that could be aborted.

Maybe it's just pregnancy hormones. I also can't stop think about the poor women who have to make that decision. It must be so awful and I just want to give them a big hug.

I guess my question is, AIBU to not really know how I feel about it?

**Blinkyblink
It’s called responsibility for your actions.
We know the possible consequence of unprotected sex. So a woman needs to own that consequence

but if the pregnancy and childbirth was so horrific a possibility for a woman to ensure, why did she not take ownership for that and ensure protected sex?**

The responsible choice for many women is to abort
Contraception fails, women have a right to fix that failure

I know a fetus has no right to life, I was talking about the reasons that pro-lifers have for their views.

**bluepears
so many people state the feutus is part of the womens body its not its An individual's body parts all share the same genetic code (dna gender etc) theres no logically coherent argument to why you would treat a human that happens to be in the womb different to a human out of the womb.
furthermore the fact that a baby can be operated outside the womb then be put back in. So if the argument is simply because fetus is in the womb its different logically you would have to believe the fetus does not have rights then gets operated on outside the womb so has rights then back in the womb so has no rights.
furthermore doctors prevent mothers having medicine to harm their babies **

Can and have to are very different
They can do the surgery, a woman can choose to undego surgery for the fetus, she dont HAVE to, even if the fetus dies

Just like she can choose the treatment path that suits her.
A dr advises if a medication will or can be harmful, its the womans choice to accept or look for an alternative. If the dr refuses the woman can go elsewhere to seek treatment

It's also worth noting that a lot of the more unreasonable (frequently contradictory) advice about what pregnant women should eat/not eat, drink/not drink etc has more to do with woman-hating than maternal (or foetal) health. People who want to restrict access to abortion are often very keen on controlling and punishing pregnant women eg in favour of legal action against any woman who took drugs while pregnant - and some would like to make it illegal for women of childbearing age to drink alcohol or do certain kinds of work. In case they are pregnant and don't know, or in case they might get pregnant. Certainly, in the US, there are enough people who pretty much think that women should have far fewer human rights than men, because the only purpose for women is to be walking incubators.

SGB, so true, its about control
Completely agree with one of your previous posts on when a woman should be allowed to abort

My ds 's best mate and his gf are having a late termination (after 24 weeks as they just found out apparently). I had to ask ds to stop mentioning it tbh.'

Then there's a medical reason for it

No, not necessarily. Tears can be shed in front of medical professionals that this isn't the right thing for a couple so young and dependant on what card you play, you can have a very late termination without too much hassle, providing you stick to your guns.

I find that absolutely horrific.

A friend of mine had a late termination at 21
Weeks. Needless to say we aren't friends anymore. She said it just wasn't the right thing for her anymore since the dad left, and pushed for the termination

Wrong, wrong, weong

[shocked] you dumped your friend because she had a late termination after the dad had already dumped her?

And even more [shocked] that you won't listen to your son when he talks about his friend's troubles.

That's not nice.

12 week scan wasn't done until 13 weeks. Problems were picked up and I then had to wait for an appointment at the clinic over an hour away the following week. At that appointment the termination was booked but the earliest the could do was not for another fortnight. So about 16 weeks before the termination could be done. I am grateful there isn't an 8/10 week limit!

Jux the son's issues was not my post. Someone else said it and I forgot to star quote

Yes, I'm not friends with that woman anymore.

Her situation was far from ideal but she was not raped, she was not forced. She knew about the pregnancy early on but decided she didn't want to continue when the relationship broke down

To me, that isn't right. Abortion at 21 weeks should only be used in extenuating circumstances, such as rape, or the pregnancy and childbirth seriously altering the mother's life, fetus having poor quality of life due to severe disability etc

@Clayfray. You bet wrong. The people under our care get exemplary support, you do not know what you are talking about and your ignorant comments are grossly insulting to people who work as dedicated carers. Please apologise.

Wow. So your friend found herself in a situation where she would be a single mum and far less able to cope with a pregnancy, and you dumped her as a friend. You were no friend of hers, ever.

Having had 2 children completely cemented my belief in a woman's right to choose. I believe every woman should full autonomy over their body and reproductive system, free from judgement. I just wish that right extended to everyone in the UK, irrespective of location.

A dr advises if a medication will or can be harmful, its the womans choice to accept or look for an alternative. If the dr refuses the woman can go elsewhere to seek treatment

they cant in this country there are some drugs no doctor would prescribe to a pregnant women thalidomide as an example

Wow. So your friend found herself in a situation where she would be a single mum and far less able to cope with a pregnancy, and you dumped her as a friend. You were no friend of hers, ever

I don't think ending up as single Mum, with a perfectly healthy pregnancy, is good enough reason to abort at 21 weeks.

Sorry

And who the fuck are you to make that decision for her?

No, not necessarily. Tears can be shed in front of medical professionals that this isn't the right thing for a couple so young and dependant on what card you play, you can have a very late termination without too much hassle, providing you stick to your guns

Do you have any idea how hard it can be to obtain a termination between 20-23+6 days in this day and age in the uk?
And what the penalties are for a doctor who performs one for social reasons past 24 weeks ?

You are deluded if you think a few tears can change that.

I routinely escort and support women attending one of the very few clinics in the uk who offer post 20 week terminations, it’s not unusual for me to be driving them several hundred miles for treatment it’s also not unusual for me to hear the sentence “sorry no appointments left in the whole country”
I have also personally been present at scans and heard the words “sorry our scan puts you over the limit”

These are women who have been raped tortured in some cases thrown out of moving cars or vaginally bottled or had their faces slashed. No a few tears don’t change there situation.

Having had 2 children completely cemented my belief in a woman's right to choose. I believe every woman should full autonomy over their body and reproductive system, free from judgement. I just wish that right extended to everyone in the UK, irrespective of location.

you mean free from negative judgement as you have judged their actions and made your opinions known. and yes women have a right to bodily autonomy but its irrelevant as a fetus is not part of the mothers body.

I don't think ending up as single Mum, with a perfectly healthy pregnancy, is good enough reason to abort at 21 weeks

Of course it is. A breakdown in a relationship changes everything. It's likely she couldn't afford another child on her own, that she simply couldn't manage with an extra mouth to feed, she didn't have the mental resources to cope on her own, lots of different reasons. Maybe she had been coerced in to continuing with the pregnancy. Maybe she simply wanted to cut all ties.

In any case, there's only ever one valid reason for having a termination at any stage - because the woman wants one.

'In any case, there's only ever one valid reason for having a termination at any stage - because the woman wants one.'
what so at 30 weeks or even 34 weeks?

There is a huge difference between a TFMR and deciding to end your pregnancy for other reasons. Both terribly difficult and As a mother who decided to terminate "later" at 14 weeks (my baby had 0% chance of survival) I don't think anybody has the right to judge or pass comment on those mothers unless they've been in that situation or completely understand the absolute torment you go through making this huge decision. It's not choosing wallpaper for God's sake.

I completely agree abortions aren't contraception and that used to be my only view on them until my recent experience. Now I'm very grateful I did not have to carry my baby to term to make my whole family go through that. along with my poor tiny baby who was did not need to be put through pain unnecessarily.

its irrelevant as a fetus is not part of the mothers body.

It's growing in her body and depends on her body to survive. I'd say it's part of her body.

Bluepears it's presence is within the woman's body and as such it's presence impacts upon her bodily autonomy. The woman's legal rights trump the fetus, it's as simple as that.

what so at 30 weeks or even 34 weeks?

If that's what she wants then yes. The word "baby" is only ever an emotional value that many women assign. Legally and scientifically, it is a foetus until the point of birth.

It's growing in her body and depends on her body to survive. I'd say it's part of her body. you can say whatever you like but you are wrong a body part has all the same characteristics gender DNA ect a fetus does not have the same characteristics of the mother.
its also if your argument is because a fetus is in the womb therefore its acceptable to perform an abortion. illogical firstly as previously mentioned it is possible to remove a fetus from the womb for an operation would that mean the fetus had rights the time it was out the womb? secondly logically you would have the abortion limit right up untill birth as a fetus is in the womb right up until birth?