I don't know how I feel about abortion anymore

[sirlee66]

I've always been very pro-choice. A woman's body. A woman's right to choose.

I'm currently 34 weeks pregnant with my first and now I think my thoughts are changing.

I believe the cut off is 24 weeks? There was a lovely lady on here the other day whose waters broke and she gave birth to a baby girl at 25 weeks! If a baby can survive that early... It just seems...wrong!

Maybe the cut off could be lowered. I started feeling flutters at about 15 weeks so maybe before then.

I don't know what the answer is. I still feel really strongly that ultimately, the mother should decide but I just can't get past babies surviving outside the womb at the same age as a baby that could be aborted.

Maybe it's just pregnancy hormones. I also can't stop think about the poor women who have to make that decision. It must be so awful and I just want to give them a big hug.

I guess my question is, AIBU to not really know how I feel about it?

Iam absolutely not against abortion but I do really believe that the age babies can now survive from should be a consideration and for me, personally I struggle to see where a woman’s right to choose (non medical reasons) after a certain point actually is more than the child’s right to live and not be subjected to pain

I agree with your last sentence tinky. The late social abortions are very rare and not carried out in most hospitals. Private clinics and certain nhs hospitals. The one which performs them for our city is in a different county. Those are much more stressful, often rushed. I read a blog about a woman who had one and she said the staff treated her amazingly. She chose not to be awake, which, given the same option, I would also choose.
I think it is a choice we need to have.

hardly anyone is still someone

Have you considered the kinds of situations where the miniscule amount of women might be seeking later abortions for non medical reasons? DV, frightened teenagers, chaotic lives/ addiction, mental health problems etc. Are you comfortable saying to those women 'too late, missed your chance, you are now forced to continue with another 20+ weeks of pregnancy and give birth'?

There is a very black and white mode of thinking on this thread

And why not? To some of us it is black and white. It's very very simple: womans right to choose and that is all. No grey areas.

Nobody here is a woman hater or arrogant

That's not true. There are posters saying you deserve what you get if you aren't careful enough, there are posters saying that no-one should be allowed have an abortion, there are posters saying that the limits should be reduced to their personal comfort level.At very best that is arrogant.
People have debated on the subject forever and there has never been one line of agreement. Not saying that's right, but that's the freedom of debate

But many of us don't think there should be any debate at all, thats the point. Why should you or anyone else get an opinion one what I do with my body? Why should womens choices be up for debate by society at all?

Abortion should be available on request up to the moment of birth. End of. Because anything else is unwarranted and wholly unethical removal of a woman's bodily autonomy. The fact that women still have to get permission from two different doctors to end a pregnancy (not a requirement for any other kind of medical treatment) is disgraceful.

And all you wailing, handwringing twats who feel 'uncomfortable' about the idea of a woman you have never met, who has nothing to do with you, terminating a pregnancy because that's what she wants to do - why the fuck do you think your opinion is of any importance or relevance to anyone but you?

Milky for a woman to request a late termination she has obviously got a real need to do so, we don't know what that is. Some women are in denial, they know, but suppress it, and miss the usual 'deadline' of 12 weeks.
The one discomfort I have about the access to late abortions is in countries where boys are favoured, say in the middle east or even China with the one child rule, and so the way of thinking is less about proceeding with a pregnancy, but ending it solely due to the sex of the baby. So imo, sex should not be a part of scanning at all. We don't have a human right to know if it's a boy or a girl till it's born.

But surely that happens now for women past the 24 week limit ?

Iam absolutely not against abortion but I do really believe that the age babies can now survive from should be a consideration and for me, personally I struggle to see where a woman’s right to choose (non medical reasons) after a certain point actually is more than the child’s right to live and not be subjected to pain

So if an anaesthetic was applied to the foetus it would be fine because no pain would be experienced?

If you are using viability as the limit for abortions then surely you are advocating for early induction to deliver babies instead of abortion for anyone wanting one after 22 weeks? That would solve the problem wouldn’t it? End the pregnancy and baby gets to live?

I’m not sure who would benefit from that scenario but it seems to be what you think is best.

tinky people will have an opinion on if you get a tattoo. Doesn't mean that al the tattoo shops will shut down because of it. And maybe the judgement isn't about a termination but more that you've had sex without a condom. That is judged a lot as well.
I get the woman hating bit. I didn't see those posts.
Women's choices are a matter of pubic debate because pregnancy is another means of women being controlled on a grand scale.
It is emotive. But it shows a lack of ability to be mature when we have to refer to people as 'handwringing twats'.
Not that that was you.
I think you are right that it's a universal need.

As early as possible, as late as necessary.

The one discomfort I have about the access to late abortions is in countries where boys are favoured, say in the middle east or even China with the one child rule, and so the way of thinking is less about proceeding with a pregnancy, but ending it solely due to the sex of the baby. So imo, sex should not be a part of scanning at all. We don't have a human right to know if it's a boy or a girl till it's born

You have to put up with the discomfort to maintain the principle for all. The fact that some people will have abortions for reasons we might personally find abhorrent is not a reason to curtail them, because that impacts on anyone else. Hard cases make bad law.

Yes and I'm not comfortable with women being turned away at 25/26/27+ weeks either. But you are talking about different abortion limits depending on the reason for terminating which I cannot understand.

so many people state the feutus is part of the womens body its not its An individual's body parts all share the same genetic code (dna gender etc) theres no logically coherent argument to why you would treat a human that happens to be in the womb different to a human out of the womb.
furthermore the fact that a baby can be operated outside the womb then be put back in. So if the argument is simply because fetus is in the womb its different logically you would have to believe the fetus does not have rights then gets operated on outside the womb so has rights then back in the womb so has no rights.
furthermore doctors prevent mothers having medicine to harm their babies
edition.cnn.com/2016/10/20/health/baby-born-twice-fetal-surgery/index.html

An unnecessary induction would be kustvas bad
If a pregnant woman who wanted her baby to survive but just hated being pregnant demanded induction at 22 weeks she would be refused but there seems to be some kind of parallel running the ante natal clinic where babies are babies and viable and protected and the abortion clinic where they are seen as nothing, foetuses who aren’t classed as people yet and it’s this that I find so wrong.
Maybe it’s not the time limit aspect at all maybe it’s the contradiction and uncertainty that needs addressing before a debate can actually be had

My waters broke at 18 weeks and I had to give birth to my twins, who were beautifully formed, just too small to survive. However, despite this horrendous experience I am 100% pro-choice and don't believe any woman would make this decision without serious thought and strong justification (which me/you/anyone else doesn't have to agree with)

It is nobody else's business, women do have the right to say they wouldn't choose a termination, but they don't have the right to judge any other woman who does.

theres no logically coherent argument to why you would treat a human that happens to be in the womb different to a human out of the womb

There is no logical argument as to why you wouldn't. A born human child who breathes and eats and can be cared for by anyone is by all measures totally different to a foetus who does not breathe and takes all nutrients from another person and who can't be seperated from their host.
A foetus is a potential human. it is not a person.

So So sorry WTAF

My DNephew is also adopted. My DSis and her DH adopted him from a baby as a foster to adopt placement. His birth mother relinquished him because she never wanted a baby. She only found out about her pregnancy at 25 weeks, too late for a termination. Now I don't know, obviously, whether she would have had a termination, as some women just wouldn't do that.

So our lovely DNephew, now two and a half, will have to come to terms with the fact that his birth mother didn't want him, she never told his 3 siblings (she is a good mum to them by all accounts) or anyone in her extended family about being pregnant. She just quietly had her baby, gave him up and never told anyone. And my DSis doesn't know how she's going to explain that to her DS. We can tell our DDs that their birth mum loved them but couldn't look after them. Our DNephew's birth mum didn't want him at all. That's so heartbreaking.

And how horrible for the birth mum to give birth and not feel able to tell anyone in her family about it.

I don't have the answers. But forcing women to give birth and give their baby up for adoption is not the obvious solution that some people would have us believe.

Thank you Starlightafar

If a fetus is an individual and not part of it's mother's body then why not remove the fetus and let it survive on its own then bluepears? You speak about the mother as though she is incidental to the process of gestating instead of being the sole physical support of the fetus. You think something residing in your body should be given equal rights to you?

'There is no logical argument as to why you wouldn't. A born human child who breathes and eats and can be cared for by anyone is by all measures totally different to a foetus who does not breathe and takes all nutrients from another person and who can't be seperated from their host.
'A foetus is a potential human. it is not a person.'
your an idiot a fetus is a human breathing has all 7 signs of life (remember school biology MRS GREN) and you say a fetus potential human well human is defined as man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens and they clearly are you then change the word to person which means A human being regarded as an individual. so you are factually and empirically wrong

I agree complete with SGB

I have no doubt that a foetus is alive. I just don't think it has a right to be alive in me. And I would never get an abortion other than on serious medical grounds. Whether or not another woman does is none of my business.

It's a foetus that cannot live outside another human being's body, spears.

I agree with SGB.