I don't know how I feel about abortion anymore

[sirlee66]

I've always been very pro-choice. A woman's body. A woman's right to choose.

I'm currently 34 weeks pregnant with my first and now I think my thoughts are changing.

I believe the cut off is 24 weeks? There was a lovely lady on here the other day whose waters broke and she gave birth to a baby girl at 25 weeks! If a baby can survive that early... It just seems...wrong!

Maybe the cut off could be lowered. I started feeling flutters at about 15 weeks so maybe before then.

I don't know what the answer is. I still feel really strongly that ultimately, the mother should decide but I just can't get past babies surviving outside the womb at the same age as a baby that could be aborted.

Maybe it's just pregnancy hormones. I also can't stop think about the poor women who have to make that decision. It must be so awful and I just want to give them a big hug.

I guess my question is, AIBU to not really know how I feel about it?

your an idiot a fetus is a human breathing has all 7 signs of life (remember school biology MRS GREN) and you say a fetus potential human well human is defined as man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens and they clearly are you then change the word to person which means A human being regarded as an individual. so you are factually and empirically wrong

Thanks for the PA, but I am not wrong. Yes, man woman or child. As in people who are born. Check the law, a foetus is NOT a person. It has no personhood. That is a fact.
Potential human person. Not an actual human person. Not an alive actual person until birth.

'If a fetus is an individual and not part of it's mother's body then why not remove the fetus and let it survive on its own then bluepears? You speak about the mother as though she is incidental to the process of gestating instead of being the sole physical support of the fetus. You think something residing in your body should be given equal rights to you?'

because the fetus is exactly where it is supposed to be
and that something residing in my body would of been my ds yes i want him to have rights when i was pregnant it did not affect any of my rights.
but its clear no rights are absolute in any context so yes i have the right to my body but a fetus also has a right to life.

also, foetuses do not have all seven signs of life. You said yourself "breathing". Foetuses do no breathe. You take your first breath when you are born.

Thanks for the PA, but I am not wrong. Yes, man woman or child. As in people who are born. Check the law, a foetus is NOT a person. It has no personhood.
you are wrong a fetus has the characteristics of a human child fact child means a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority. that what it is
and i did check the law if a fetus is not a child then why is killing a child charged with 'child destruction' www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/17/man-convicted-of-killing-unborn-baby-by-kicking-pregnant-ex-girlfriend

child means a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority. that what it is

Also it means BORN.

and i did check the law if a fetus is not a child then why is killing a child charged with 'child destruction

It's exactly because they are not a person or a human that they could not be charged with murder. If it was an actual child that is what the charge would be.

also, foetuses do not have all seven signs of life. You said yourself "breathing". Foetuses do no breathe. You take your first breath when you are born.
they have respirition fact its not breathe thats not a sign of life they take oxygen from the mother they have to if humans dont get oxygen they die fetus's or not.

child means a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority. that what it is*

Also it means BORN.

and i did check the law if a fetus is not a child then why is killing a child charged with 'child destruction
the fact is they use the word child in law not fetus and child means according to the oed A young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority. no use of the word born

Just backing up what others have said really, most late terminations are for medical reasons and not taken lightly, ie problem showed up at a later scan or amnio came back unfavourable. I can't imagine many people abort at 24 weeks due to the baby not being wanted.

But again echoing what pp have said the lines are a bit blurred with 24 weeks being so late, but I firmly believe in the choice of the individual.

Blue, you're just wrong. You can think what you like but you are simply wrong on the facts.

Ah ok, well if I got pregnant it wouldn't be with your DS so is it okay if I keep my right to bodily autonomy over the fetus's right to life?

and that something residing in my body would of been my ds yes i want him to have rights when i was pregnant it did not affect any of my rights.

It does, if it conflicts with your right to bodily autonomy. To decide who else is allowed to do what else to your body. To not die, as one particular charmer on this thread suggested that women with cancer shouldn’t be allowed an abortion after 20 weeks, even if it were to cause their own death.

Under your logic, a foetus is a person with equal rights. Which means what? Their right to life would outweigh their mother’s?

And by the same token, if they are a person with equal rights, I could be completely within my rights to tell them to stop using my body.

But you’ve made up ‘rights’ that don’t exist, thankfully. Something that is dependent on someone else’s body to exist cannot be described as equal.

My two wanted, loved children, and those that didn’t make it, were there because I wanted and allowed them to be. Because my body is mine. I get to decide who uses it and for what.

'It does, if it conflicts with your right to bodily autonomy. To decide who else is allowed to do what else to your body. To not die, as one particular charmer on this thread suggested that women with cancer shouldn’t be allowed an abortion after 20 weeks, even if it were to cause their own death.'
how what can i do with my body not pregnant that i cant when i am?

'Under your logic, a foetus is a person with equal rights. Which means what? Their right to life would outweigh their mother’s?
' a fetus does not kill there mothers so it dose not impact on the mothers right to life (apart from very rare exceptions where in those cases an abortion would be ok)

how what can i do with my body not pregnant that i cant when i am?

not be pregnant, obviously.

how what can i do with my body not pregnant that i cant when i am?

If you are treating a foetus as an equal human with equal rights, an awful lot that might be held to put the foetus at risk. Up to and including starting life-saving chemotherapy that would kill or damage the foetus.

a fetus does not kill there mothers so it dose not impact on the mothers right to life (apart from very rare exceptions where in those cases an abortion would be ok)

Then your case isn’t based on logic. Either a foetus is a person, and therefore has equal human rights, or the mother’s right to life is greater (and therefore you cannot argue equal personhood).

Where do you draw the line? The mother’s right not to be permanently disabled? What level of disability is ‘ok’?

I think it's fine not to know how you feel about it, but it is not fine to make sweeping judgemental statements regarding the unfortunate few who find themselves in the place where they may have to opt for a late termination. You will never know (or I) why an individual makes such a decision and quite frankly it's none of your business. I sincerely hope that your DC never finds them self in such a situation later in life and has to lean on you for 'support'

And yes, bodily autonomy is about choosing who gets to do what with your body. That includes using it to gestate, grow and be born, particularly given the many risks to women that still exists around pregnancy and birth.

I can remember one rather vocal pro lifer on these pages who was happy with a woman going completely permanently blind as a result of pregnancy if the alternative was even an early abortion.

Then your case isn’t based on logic. Either a foetus is a person, and therefore has equal human rights, or the mother’s right to life is greater (and therefore you cannot argue equal personhood). '
a fetus is a person so has personhood i already explained no rights are absolute but the mothers right to life is not a factor as a fetus does not affect the mothers life.

'If you are treating a foetus as an equal human with equal rights, an awful lot that might be held to put the foetus at risk. Up to and including starting life-saving chemotherapy that would kill or damage the foetus.'
yesi would argue they should not do those things but pro choicers should argue they should be allowed to do whatever they but in this country when pregnant we are not allowed to do what ever we like doctors only give us certain medicine were advised to avoid certain foods.

Of course a fetus can affect the mother's life. I presume your only experience of pregnancy is a healthy one, does that mean it is beyond the scope of your imagination that it might not be that way for other women?

And personhood is a legal status conferred only on born people.

the mothers right to life is not a factor as a fetus does not affect the mothers life.

in this country when pregnant we are not allowed to do what ever we like doctors only give us certain medicine were advised to avoid certain foods.

These are two totally contradictory statement. Pregnancy cannot simultaneously have no effect on a woman’s life while at the same time compromising her health by limiting the medicines a doctor will prescribe for her.