I don't know how I feel about abortion anymore

[sirlee66]

I've always been very pro-choice. A woman's body. A woman's right to choose.

I'm currently 34 weeks pregnant with my first and now I think my thoughts are changing.

I believe the cut off is 24 weeks? There was a lovely lady on here the other day whose waters broke and she gave birth to a baby girl at 25 weeks! If a baby can survive that early... It just seems...wrong!

Maybe the cut off could be lowered. I started feeling flutters at about 15 weeks so maybe before then.

I don't know what the answer is. I still feel really strongly that ultimately, the mother should decide but I just can't get past babies surviving outside the womb at the same age as a baby that could be aborted.

Maybe it's just pregnancy hormones. I also can't stop think about the poor women who have to make that decision. It must be so awful and I just want to give them a big hug.

I guess my question is, AIBU to not really know how I feel about it?

milky

Have you adopted an unwanted child then? Are you prepared to?

PhelanThePain

Daft analogy

Treatment involves no loss
Abortion involved loss

Blinkyblink

Ever heard of domestic abuse? Very common for abusive men to even sabotage contraception (holes in condoms, contraceptive pill replaced or flushed, confined to house or threatened?) to keep their victims pregnant and therefore vulnerable a secret abortion may give her the time she needs to escape. Or at least avoid a baby being brought into the mess.

However when a foetus is healthy I think the limit should be lowered to somewhere between 12-20 weeks. There’s a fine line between choice and selfishness in those cases.

So the line between choice and selfishness is 20 weeks of gestation? What an odd attitude. Before 20 weeks is fine but after that it’s selfish.

Treatment involves no loss Abortion involved loss

Not to most people who have one, and its not for you to say. For many its perfectly analogous to unwanted bacteria.

Forced pregnancy involves loss too- of women's human rights, bodily autonomy, physical and mental health, potentially their life.

I don't like the idea of abortions beyond 12 weeks especially when there are so many people desperate to have children - it would seem better to have more babies to put up for adoption.

I cannot believe people blithely trot out this argument. As though carrying a baby for 9 months when you don't want to be pregnant is nothing. As though giving up a baby, even one you don't want to parent, is an easy thing to do. So unbelievably stupid and so thoughtless. Women who do not want to continue a pregnancy are not there to be exploited as incubators for people who can't have children. It's a grotesque suggestion. Just as grotesque as forcing a woman to abort a wanted child.

And why 12 weeks? Very arbitrary and not founded in any facts or research. As is so often the case.

Very, very few terminations are after 24 weeks. The vast, vast majority are where the baby has been found to have a condition incompatible with life or leading to significant difficulties. Or where the pregnancy is a threat to the mother's life. In those circumstances it would be utter cruelty to make a woman continue that pregnancy to term and I cannot believe that a reasonable person would want that.

PhelanThePain

Daft analogy

Treatment involves no loss
Abortion involved loss

Treatment of chlamydia results in loss of chlamydia. Treatment of unwanted pregnancy in loss of unwanted pregnancy. The loss is the desired outcome. The Chlamydia is unwanted and the pregnancy is unwanted. Loss of both is the entire point.

I’m not sure when the foetus would feel pain or have any awareness ? If someone could tell me I could be more specific but I’m assuming it’s between 12-20 weeks

To make a decision that would cause so much pain and ultimately death I do personally feel is selfish but that’s just my opinion. Doesn’t mean I’m right or wrong it’s just how I see it. To know after a certain stage it would cause pain or that a baby could survive makes it to me, very wrong

Forced pregnancy then adoption would be the worst kind of outcome for a woman who didn't wish to proceed. I agree with you Beko.
I am so sorry for your situation. I don't think you have a part in the argument at all, certainly not to justify making women have their baby.
I wish you all the very best.
starlightafar I don't call rape 'sexual relations'
Er you just did.
We don't need your pseudosarcasm response.
It is non dependent on the way the foetus was conceived. The joining of sperm and egg is conception regardless of the manner of conception. The joining of man and woman in sexual relationships is consensual.
Glad that's cleared up.
No I don't think there should be different laws for anyone.

Er ok, fine. Let's say 'the exact nature of the act of sexual intercourse that took place'.

Very common for abusive men to even sabotage contraception (holes in condoms,

My ex did exactly this after I separated from him. So it wouldn’t have even been his baby I became pregnant with or his chlamydia or HIV. I can only imagine he wanted to punish me for dumping him.

I think what I’m trying to say (badly as I struggle to articulate) is that I don’t disagree as believe there is a place for abortion but it needs amending and access to it improved to help implement that

To make a decision that would cause so much pain and ultimately death I do personally feel is selfish but that’s just my opinion. Doesn’t mean I’m right or wrong it’s just how I see it. To know after a certain stage it would cause pain or that a baby could survive makes it to me, very wrong

So you realise thats just your personal opinion but you think everyone else should be restricted because of it? That's the leap I can't fathom. Are you that arrogant in everything? Menus in all restaurants should only offer what you like?

I was just stating my opinion

I am sure it has already been said but I'm feel for 'normal' abortion it should be under the stage where the baby would have a viable chance at survival.

If there are special circumstances such as the 20 weeks scan result or rape or such then have another upper limit.

For example given that some babies now survive from 22 weeks and assuming they feel pain from 20 weeks I would say something like reducing the limit from 24 to 20 weeks would be appropriate
But that in doing so access would be quicker and only one dr needs to sign and counselling sessions are arranged quicker etc. I didn’t say I disagree with abortion but as it is currently I do
For medical problems then I think the current system is how it should be and that shouldn’t change

Why does anyone think we need to reduce the limit when almost no-one has a termination anywhere near the limit, other than for medical reasons? And when people do, its usually for a very good reason.
As early as possible, as late as necessary, it should be as simple as that.

tinky I don't think her views are arrogant. They are hers. If we are wanting to give women autonomy of their bodies surely that includes her thoughts?
There is a very black and white mode of thinking on this thread. Nobody here is a woman hater or arrogant. People have debated on the subject forever and there has never been one line of agreement. Not saying that's right, but that's the freedom of debate.
You cannot refer to abortion as simply as ordering a meal. That minimises everything about abortion and what women have to go through to get one.
She's just saying what she thinks which is what she is allowed to do. Not that that would happen in real life. Just what she feels comfortable with.
Bee most abonormalities don't get picked up till the 20 week scan. Rape is not always recognised. If you define normal as for social reasons then that is capped at 24 weeks which is the current stage beyond which the foetus has a chance of living when it has months of incubator support..

Everyone is absolutkry stating their opinion that’s ok. What is not ok is their opinion having concequences on other people’s choices.

I think every woman should gave an absolute right to free safe abortions st any stage of pregnancy and she should not have to give any reason why.

I fully support anyone’s right to not agree and never have an abortion.

Can you imagine how flooded the police would be with rape reports if that was the only way to get an abortion? Assuming current trends continued, that would TRIPLE the number of reports.

How on earth could you ever get a rape conviction ever again?

I think the limit needs to be reduced to reflect the fact that babies survive at a younger gestation than they did when they 24 week limit was put in place
It may be true that hardly anyone has an abortion for non medical reasons neart he limit but hardly anyone is still someone

I think every woman should gave an absolute right to free safe abortions st any stage of pregnancy and she should not have to give any reason why. I fully support anyone’s right to not agree and never have an abortion.

I mean, or in fact to agree with you and still never have an abortion. It's rather like same-sex marriage in that way.

tinky I don't think her views are arrogant. They are hers. If we are wanting to give women autonomy of their bodies surely that includes her thoughts?

My point is that to think whatever you want is fine, but to advocate to change the limit for everyone else based on your thoughts is incredibly arrogant.
Which it is, what else could it possibly be?

And these lunatics who hang around abortion clinics should have an exclusion zone snd absolutkry be not allowed to engage with the staff or patients or carry placards.