I don't know how I feel about abortion anymore

[sirlee66]

I've always been very pro-choice. A woman's body. A woman's right to choose.

I'm currently 34 weeks pregnant with my first and now I think my thoughts are changing.

I believe the cut off is 24 weeks? There was a lovely lady on here the other day whose waters broke and she gave birth to a baby girl at 25 weeks! If a baby can survive that early... It just seems...wrong!

Maybe the cut off could be lowered. I started feeling flutters at about 15 weeks so maybe before then.

I don't know what the answer is. I still feel really strongly that ultimately, the mother should decide but I just can't get past babies surviving outside the womb at the same age as a baby that could be aborted.

Maybe it's just pregnancy hormones. I also can't stop think about the poor women who have to make that decision. It must be so awful and I just want to give them a big hug.

I guess my question is, AIBU to not really know how I feel about it?

OP I'm if the view this is not a subject to be thought about when pregnant. I too felt very very conflicted when watching a programme when pg about late abortions.

Since having dc I have revisited and am less emotional about it. A relative had a Kate term abortion due to suspected abnormalities and a friend gave birth to a 25 weeker who is now thriving several years later. However it was serious touchcand go at the time.

Probably a subject best left for you at this stage

A very good point squoosh. Those poor women

@kayter87 that absoultley wasn't my intention, I did react when I was getting accused of putting forward arguments I didn't make.

I have literally no interest in men’s opinions of abortion. There’s no point responding to them, whether I agree with them or not.

There is plenty of support in Iceland for parents of children with disabilities

Is there? Genuine question.
Do you have any good sources I can look at?

blackberry

Don't be fucking ridiculous.
Disingenuousness is so often the resort of those who find debate too hard.

NewDadNearly30
it's the definition of evil

Well it's not really is it? I think perhaps if I was looking for someone to describe as 'Evil' I'd probably use someone like Hitler, or maybe Thomas Hamilton perhaps.

If I wanted to be pedantic I'd give you the actual definition of 'Evil'
An evil force, power, or personification.

So....... perhaps think about using less emotive language, and maybe avoid standing outside clinics with banners.

Yesterday I attended the funeral of a young woman I know whose cancer was detected very late in pregnancy and whose chances of survival were hampered by her pregnancy. She successfully had her baby but she didn’t make it. Pregnancy is a life and death situation and we have become immune to that thanks to our excellent healthcare. But it’s women’s lives in jeopardy and only women get to decide whether they want the risk.

I feel for a man whose partner has an abortion that the man doesn’t want her to have. But not as much as I feel for my young friend who was laid to rest yesterday.

Hard cases make bad law but this is the reality of pregnancy for some women.

FenellaMaxwellsPony And yet I know of many living past that, well into childhood, with families they live and who love them in return. Who communicate and laugh and play. Many of the statistics on t13 and t18 are outdated.

If you don’t like the idea of abortion then that’s absolutely fine, you can choose not to have one

You can’t take away someone else’s right to choose though.

24 week abortions are very rare, and would really only be for medical reasons. Even so, I can’t begin to imagine how horrible it must be for the women who have them.

MrsDV Whereas going straight to ad hominem attacks is a really strong move
You'd know about that.
Whereas I was calling you out for your dick move. Mor of a public service than an attack.

Tinky
Also you can't be dead when you were never alive are you say a foetus isn't alive?

And what do you think my agenda is? Proper information for families? Yup. Informed choices? Yup. Less biased information? Yup.

Am I biased that they would have wanted me to abort? Yup. That's my nearly 3 yo doctors would have thought better dead. That's my nearly 3 yo you would have thought better dead based on a chromosome count and outdated medical information

are you say a foetus isn't alive?

Yes, in that they are not a born human person. A foetus is not a living being.

And what do you think my agenda is? Proper informationor families? Yup. Informed choices? Yup. Less biased information? Yup

And you have spent enough time in Iceland to know how biased their info is or what info they get? No, thought not. Never even been there and know nothing about it.

@SleepingStandingUp Really? Please provide up to date sources to support “outdated statistics”. The NHS, US national library of genetics, and SOFT, the dedicated charity for both illnesses all quote those statistics as current, and seeing as there is no cure or treatment for Patau’s or Edwards, there are no factors for any shift in those statistics.

There are indeed some cases who live further into childhood - they would be the 10-20% as evidenced by the statistics.

In the US in 2016 there were 12000 deaths to a ratio of 15000 live births, which is an 80% mortality rate. That’s not even taking into account the numbers of miscarriages and still births caused by the condition.

I am not saying children cannot live with these conditions, I am saying that the majority do not, and for those that do, the conditions are life-limiting. There is nothing wrong with people not wanting that for their children.

If the state position is that these babies are better off dead

If it reassures you at all, the only exposure I had to abortion from my state school education was in religious studies where we were taught by a devout Christian pro-life teacher that all the religions considered abortion to be wrong, we were shown pictures of aborted foetuses and were made to learn the details of each method of abortion in detail to pass the course.

Having heard no counter-view and not having been exposed to any feminist influences, this teaching was the main factor that influenced my decision not to terminate when I found myself pregnant in a violently abusive relationship a few short years later.

Having children made me more pro choice, not less.

I agree that men shouldn't offer an opinion on abortion as they will never be in a position where they could be forced to give birth to a baby they don't want. It should be the pregnant woman's choice, ultimately.

For me, abortion is always sad, as I do see it as ending a potential human life, but the alternative is far worse. Since adopting my DDs, and learning about the number of children in the care system, I can't see how SS could cope with increasing numbers of unwanted/abused children if abortion were ever to be outlawed.

And a lot of women would order themselves drugs over the internet, as they do in Northern Ireland, putting themselves at risk. It's a far worse scenario by far.

Not sure which I find weirder here, the idea that you can see 'blackness' on a scan, or the idea that a woman might be shocked to discover that her baby was black. hmm

This not your post then Blackberry?

sirlee66

"I started feeling flutters at about 15 weeks so maybe before then."

I was taking the post seriously up until that point. 😒

I didn't feel movement until almost 25 weeks, but I don't think we should change abortion laws based on that. Seriously dafuq? Complete logic fail.

I agree there is nothing wring with that Fenella, I have said I agree it is their choice to make in pregnancy and their choice in terms of choosing palliative care over full intervention, their choice to withhold care later on. Families who have fought doctors passionately to intervene at birth who have also agreed to stop treatment down the line as circumstances change, perfectly acceptable. But should be an informed choice and doctors telling parents this will ruin your life, ruin your children's lives, never know you love, never be happy - that isn't balanced.

Ok tinky, So how are their abortion stats so high? You readily is nothing to do with how the information is shared, what information is shared, what bias is spun the doctors, etc?

I felt the opposite when I was pregnant and since becoming a mother what I have realised how much time, energy, love, money, resilience, patience and emotional reserve has to be available to be a good parent. No one should be forced into it and if they don't think they have these things to give they should be able to make this decision. For me, pro choice has never been based on whether and when a foetus is 'alive' but on a woman's right to choose whether she can be a mother and take on that responsibility or not.