I don't know how I feel about abortion anymore

[sirlee66]

I've always been very pro-choice. A woman's body. A woman's right to choose.

I'm currently 34 weeks pregnant with my first and now I think my thoughts are changing.

I believe the cut off is 24 weeks? There was a lovely lady on here the other day whose waters broke and she gave birth to a baby girl at 25 weeks! If a baby can survive that early... It just seems...wrong!

Maybe the cut off could be lowered. I started feeling flutters at about 15 weeks so maybe before then.

I don't know what the answer is. I still feel really strongly that ultimately, the mother should decide but I just can't get past babies surviving outside the womb at the same age as a baby that could be aborted.

Maybe it's just pregnancy hormones. I also can't stop think about the poor women who have to make that decision. It must be so awful and I just want to give them a big hug.

I guess my question is, AIBU to not really know how I feel about it?

I am on the side of PP who actually found themselves more pro choice after having children. Prior to having my first child, I was nominally pro choice, but there was also a bit of me that thought it would be better if a woman didn’t want a baby to have it anyway and put it up for adoption.

This was because I was terribly naive and had no idea what was involved in pregnancy and birth. During that first pregnancy I was extremely ill, spent 4 weeks in hospital and my baby had to be delivered prematurely. No woman should be forced to go through that if they have chosen not to. Then there are birth injuries, birth trauma etc. I support choice for all women and if it was a choice between legalised abortion at all stages of pregnancy for any reason or no abortion at all I would prefer the former.

Ok I'm happy to hear why ending the life of something you believe to be a perfectly healthy living being is acceptable

How generous of you.

If you ever find yourself with an unwanted pregnancy, NewDad, you can choose to apply your moral position to the situation and act accordingly in deciding whether or not to terminate. And others can do the same. It's not for me to tell you to have an abortion and it's not for you tell me I can't.

NewDadNearly30

It is morally okay to say I don't want someone - anyone - living in my body.

@mogleflop well bloody said!!

@bertiebotts, yep the truth comes out. Its about control and punishment of women who dare have sex

@sprinklesinmyelbow they don't need to ? But when people are attacking me for putting up a post where I pretty much said the morality is akin to the actual person who is having the abortions belief I feel I'm justified to say why is that wrong ?

@blackberryfairy come on now I said that in specific reply to people telling me I'm telling women they can't get abortions ? Women don't need my approval I get that i never claimed they did

If you could magic a fetus from one womb to another, then it would be socially unacceptable to abort a healthy fetus - you'd have to try to find a suitable host first. But then ta-daaaaa! Unhappily pregnant woman is happily no longer pregnant; unhappily unpregnant woman is happily pregnant / has artificial womb in spare room incubating child she wants. There could be no possible argument against allowing the unhappily pregnant woman to terminate her pregnancy because it wouldn't end the life of the fetus.

But in real life 2018 you can't transplant a fetus into a host womb. They're developing artificial wombs (holy shit) but they don't exist yet and certainly not for humans.

I'm left with the moral certainty that it is wrong to force a woman to stay pregnant. The fact that a tx means the death of the fetus is awful, obviously, but LESS AWFUL THAN ENFORCED PREGNANCY/BIRTH. Just as it's awful that people die waiting for a transplant but we don't force healthy family members to give up a spare kidney or slice of liver or bone marrow. Because body autonomy is a fundamental right and cornerstone of our laws.

Just as it's awful that people die waiting for a transplant but we don't force healthy family members to give up a spare kidney or slice of liver or bone marrow. Because body autonomy is a fundamental right and cornerstone of our laws

Exactly. Why is it morally acceptable to deny someone my kidney? Erm, because it's mine. No one has a right to force me to undergo an operation which is unnecessary to preserve my health.

Pro-lifers aren't pro-life, they're pro-forced birth.

Look I've ibviously upset a lot of people which was never my intention so I'm sincerely sorry if anyone feels anger or upset. I do feel my original post has been completely misunderstood or twisted, the pint was not condemning abortions, I think abortions should be available it is much better for society and would ever dream it to be my place to tell women (and I do understand this is a woman's issue) how to live their life. My original point was in relation to the OPs dilemma regarding the morality of abortion and my point was that the question of morality is down to the person who is having the abortion ? Some people find swearing morally wrong, other do it all day, wether it's morally wrong is down to each person. Maybe my language was off and I didn't make it clear, for that I apologise truly and i will try to be between in the future so women don't think I'm telling them what to do. Again apologise for any anger I've caused.

bertie that is what I want.
I have no hidden agenda.
I would hold the hand of a woman having a termination for disability one day and support a woman insisting on active treatment for her newborn with an 'incompatible with life' condition the next.

I am not romantic about disability. I work with life limited children, including babies who will only live for days. I don't have the view that all children with DS are happy little souls.

Over the decades I have been working in disability my concern about how parents, especially mothers, are confronted with the news about their child's condition has increased.

We need to treat woman as capable and trust them to decide. Not try to push them in any direction. No depictions of disabled children as Gods Special Gifts but no horror stories of burdensome sub humans leaving chaos in their wake either.

Pro-lifers aren't pro-life, they're pro-forced birth.

Exactly. In reality they don't care at all about the baby and what life it may have. Just as long as it's born full term

Look I've ibviously upset a lot of people which was never my intention

What's that smell?

Cow manure.

If the state position is that these babies are better off dead, if every doctor says your baby will be a burden, your baby will have a life of pain and misery, we won't intervene, we won't operate on the same conditions we would operate on in other children, if its clear you will get no ongoing support, if they're little evidence otherwise and lots of pressure then women can't make the same reasoned decision they would without that propaganda and the state is acting as though those conditions should be exterminated. I don't believe women in Iceland have access to the same support and guidance and opportunity women in the UK have to continue with a pregnancy for a child they might want. Don't underestimate the power of the professional view

That isnt the state position and you clearly know nothing outside your own agenda. There is plenty of support in Iceland for parents of children with disabilities.
Also you can't be dead when you were never alive.

I knew a woman who had a late abortion, 23 weeks, she was a work colleague. I was a teenager, she was about 10 years older. She had that termination because her partner had became physically abusive ( though had long been emotionally abusive). She told everyone it was a late loss, except me. I was only 16 at the time but she told me because she felt I wouldn’t judge her. And she was right, I didn’t. I felt sorry for her then, I feel even sorrier for her now. She was pregnant by an abusive man, living 100’s of miles away from her family. I hope she is happy now. She just couldn’t bear the thought that this awful, awful man would always have a right to always be in her life. She left the area and went home shortly afterwards, free of that abusive man. I understand why she did what she did.

I agree newdad that the ethics of this are deeply personal and unknowable to anyone else. It is not subject to persuasion. That’s why we each have to reach our own conclusion and leave others to do as they see fit.

I'm actually being honest.

Why would I come here just to upset people I have better things to do.

As ever, MrsDV has very eloquently discussed the difficulty re supporting medical terminations for disability reasons, whilst still supporting disabled people’s rights. I agree entirely with what she’s said.

Do you know what? Today when looking out at the snow I thought of the 12 Irish women (that is the average number) whose travel plans to UK clinics would have been cancelled due to adverse weather conditions. Imagine the stress they must have felt. How anxious they must feel now. It's outrageous.

Every day I grow more passionate about a woman's right to decide what happens to her body.

@NewDadNearly30 I think I got what you were saying but you used really emotive language in your post that was obviously going to upset people. You then continued to push it.

That is a heartbreaking thought squoosh.

Absolutely squoosh