to think there must be some kind of border in Ireland / Northern Ireland because of people

[kalapattar]

All the talk has been about goods and services.

But how will people travel between the UK and Ireland without a physical border? Passport checks, immigration status etc. There won't be a border between mainland UK and Northern Ireland so how will this work?

Wishful thinking and ignorance won't solve the problem.

Denying there's a problem will also be ineffective.

I live in Northern Ireland. When I'm going from where I live in the north, to get to the south of Ireland you go over the border. We use sterling, the south uses euros. Obviously depends on your opinion as an individual. But as a PP said you wouldn't know you passed through the north to the south until you see the speed signs for example. Works fine as it is I think.

If a border is imposed around the Occupied six counties the Peace Process will suffer.

Surely nobody would be so stupid.

Oh and I currently leave England, drive to Scotland, ferry to NI, drive to Ireland and back again without showing any form of ID. I show some form of ID on the plane as that's the same with any flight, but children can fly on easyjet with just a birth cert up until they are 14 I Think? Possibly 16. Ryanair demand kids have passports, but that's their own rules.

Yes, that's one of the problems kalapattar

There is, of course, an excise border for fuel, tobacco and alcohol between NI and RoI. This requires documentation to be completed prior to shipment and carried by the haulier.

Link here as to how it works.

A similar system is in place between Sweden and Norway (as Norway is not in customs union but is in Schengen) for customs. Simple, operating in the EU and no border posts.

No reason a similar/same system cannot be used post Brexit.

A very big wall?

At the moment the UK and Ireland are in a common travel area, which means once you enter one country you are free to travel to the other, so no border checks needed. This works because there are very few people who have a legal right to enter one but not the other. After Brexit this will become more complicated because there will be a large population of people (citizens of the other EU countries) who have a right to enter Ireland but may not have a right to enter the UK.

Having said that, if common sense prevails then the UK will allow free travel of EU citizens to the UK after Brexit which would resolve (or at least fudge) the issue. Movement of goods is the trickier problem.

The Common Travel Area only applies to British and Irish nationals. Post Brexit it won’t apply to (say) an Italian National living in the Republic and wanting to travel to the North.

And don’t even start on livestock....

Will that change? - because people could go from any European country to Ireland and then get to the mainland via Northern Ireland without any checks

That's the question.
Currently Ireland isn't in the schengen (sp?) area, but that could always change. So even if it works for now, it could change down the line and that should be considered. Doubt it will be though.

There is, of course, an excise border for fuel, tobacco and alcohol between NI and RoI. This requires documentation to be completed prior to shipment and carried by the haulier

This is about people, not goods.

Having said that, if common sense prevails then the UK will allow free travel of EU citizens to the UK after Brexit which would resolve (or at least fudge) the issue

Absolutely no chance.

I spend all day every day talking to UK politicians. No chance.

This is the dilemma that the brexiteers find themselves in.

Either the border is reinstated, reneging on the terms of the GFA and enraging NI nationalists (which is something that no-one really wants, deep down, if they understand the consequences).

OR the UK controlling their borders and therefore EU nationals crossing them is simply a pipe dream.

Shame no-one bottomed that out before the vote, hmm?

I remember travelling up to the North to visit a Boots store (we didn't have them in the Republic back then) as a child and being stopped at the border at the N1/A1 and a British soldier having my Dad roll down the window to question him and him pointing his gun towards the car about a metre away from my face. I was terrified. And the spike strips. Does anyone really want a return to that? I cannot see how that is progress. It's just unwinding the peace process. It works perfectly fine as it is now.

And spare a thought for the ROI government who could do without all this shit landing on their doorstep again, through no fault of their own.

There is no answer to the Ireland problem.

A border between North and South is not acceptable.
A border between NI and the UK is not acceptable.
But there must be a border somewhere.

The Ireland problem!

I think it’s the UK problem, really.

My ex is from slap bang on the border. Nowadays his family live their lives across both sides of the border as if it wasn't there. One of his siblings lives in Northern Ireland but their children go to school ten minutes away across the border, one works on each side, the kids attend activities on both sides etc. A hard border now would be chaos.

Ah well, the brexiteers have got it in hand I'm sure.

then the UK will allow free travel of EU citizens to the UK after Brexit
I spend all day every day talking to UK politicians. No chance

so we are going to have to have visas for holidays/short term business travel then? Are you SURE? When you say "UK politicians" do you just mean Tory politicians like Liam Fox and Jacob Rees Mob?

It's hard to see how it could possibly be done without the army back.

And then if that happens, there will be outrage in the UK when some are killed, and outrage here when innocents are killed by them. It's all happened before so no point saying it won't happen again.

The Ireland problem, what does that even mean?!
And why must there be a border somewhere? For what reason?

marge how can the UK claim to have control over it's borders without having any borders?

They could always give us back our counties!