to ask for trans threads to stay in Feminism?

[yawning801]

Just that, really. This isn't meant to start a debate, or be goady in any way. I've just hidden the Feminism board to avoid the trans threads but they're seeping into AIBU (like this one I suppose ) and other places too and I'm trying to avoid them! Can we keep trans threads in Feminism please? TIA

Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist is an oxymoron because feminism has and does include gender bending females, transmen, queer women, cross-dressing women.

The term terf itself perfectly demonstrates the mysogyony driving those that use TERF as an insult.

They themselves dont give a fuck about gender non conforming bio females! "Trans excusionary" applies to bio men only, clearly....

well put Springhen

The reason it seems 'out of control' is that it's really, really important at this point in time. In addition, loads of people don't actually know about it, or understand it at all. The problem has not gone away. When TRAs stop trying to trample all over our rights, perhaps we'll then STFU.

Well first of all toomanyweeds, the fact that an insult exists specifically for feminists who do this rather than any of the other groups who share similar views like, say, fundamentalist Christians, Muslims or Jews is quite telling isn't it? Or just all those straight blokes who don't think transwomen are real women when it comes to deciding who they want to have sex with. Especially as there are many more of them in the world. And they certainly have more power. Yet radical feminists are the group highlighted by the existence of a term to describe them. That immediately invites question.

Then look at the way in which the term is used by people who disagree with the ideology it describes. It isn't a simple description of someone's views, because you'd use radical feminist if you were actually trying to do that. It's used as an insult. Look up die in a fire TERF on tumblr and twitter. Remember too that wanting women whose views you don't like to be burned to death is something that's happened in the not so recent past. There's a connotation. And yet the people who use it continue to do so. Why do you think that might be?

And also, it's not necessarily even accurate. Radical feminists may well include transmen in their definitions, as transmen are biologically female, have been socialised as women and thus still suffer some disadvantage due to both of these. Especially when they don't pass. Because you can't identify yourself out of sexism.

I don’t post much, but I have read a lot of the trans threads. And I haven’t seen any hate at all. But I have seen a lot of posters saying they’ve had enough of the hatred for trans people. None of them engage in the conversation. None of them listen to what these intelligent women are saying. They shout bigot and flee. I definitely think more women, all women actually, especially parents, need to talk about it.

What hate and bile? It sounds like some of you haven't actually read the threads, but want to complain about them amyway.

I'm very grateful to.mumsnet for opening my eyes to the dark side of Trans activism. I would have sleepwalked into blind acceptance of all of it otherwise.

I don't agree with self ID or procedures on under 18's either but I just think that sometimes these threads can go into the realm of talking about all trans women with the same hatred and I don't think it does anyone any good.

But I have seen a lot of posters saying they’ve had enough of the hatred for trans people. None of them engage in the conversation. None of them listen to what these intelligent women are saying. They shout bigot and flee.

Mmm, it's interesting isn't it?

And I haven’t seen any hate at all.

How about deleted posts?

Yabu

To be fair it's impossible to debate on mumsnet as one person against 10 or 20 others. You cannot keep up

I've just checked the front page and there only seems to be one thread about trans issues, apart from this one, and that has trans in the title so people can hide it if they want to. I don't see what's excessive about that, so YABU.

Oh my, not this again. Firstly, there is no hate and secondly, this is a current issue affecting everybody. You dont need to read them OP and I would imagine you havent or you would know the threads are not full of bile.

It's a no from me as well. Just scroll by. I read the thread title and hazard a guess as to whether I'll be interested. Some times I am, sometimes I'm not. Thats a message board. It's free speech.

@timshortfforthalia

I'm totally with you.

yawning801 how did you hide the feminism board ? I want to hide it too but can't find how.

No. It's far too important.

The more people who start to realise what's happening with this, the better.

@Beetlejizz Sorry, perhaps I'm not following the thread 100% but what is your actual position wrt trans/gender politics?

I feel the same. I'm a feminist but the amount of trans threads have made me hide that section as I'm a trans ally.

What does trans ally mean?

Rattymama so does being a trans ally mean that you dont want to know what your kids are being taught in PSHE? Or just that you know in advance that you'll definitely have no problem with it before youve even heard/read what kids are being told.

My partner is FTM trans so I am supportive of trans rights. That's all.

Or does it mean that you arent entitled to any opinions about your kids being told that if they dont conform to gender steriotypes then that might mean theyre not girls/boys?

Does "ally" mean you allow people to call you "ciswoman" , which by their own definition means a biological woman who acts and looks how men think a woman should act and look?

I don't feel that Trans/ MILs/CF/parking threads are the only things MN has to offer blackberryfairy.

I am currently getting some pretty good advice on the Litter Tray for instance. And there's the general chit chat too.