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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask for someone to actually explain how trans women are women???

439 replies

Lilyyulelog · 22/02/2018 21:40

I genuinely would love a satisfactory explanation, one which gets to the point. Since becoming aware of the 'trans debate' I've yet to see one that makes any sense at all.

Or is it just that whether or not they are isn't actually the real issue? But surely it is...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
ignatiusjreilly · 23/02/2018 10:46

Sorry, I wasn't clear that I was only talking about the type of trans activist mentioned higher up the thread, who isn't transitioning but wants to be accepted as a woman because they say so.

UpstartCrow · 23/02/2018 10:47

I cant imagine being so privileged that I cant grasp that women need women only spaces and services, and have the right to compete in sports.

BigDeskBob · 23/02/2018 10:48

Dungeondragon15, what's a genuine reason?

It's fine if a man wants to pretend to be a women in his own head, how would I know and why would I care? But when that same man wants to then be placed on a female hospital ward, or sit on an all female panel, it's untruthful to say women don't suffer.

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 10:53

The right to same sex spaces, to compete fairly in sports, or have a women only hospital ward or prison, Rape Crisis or DV shelter.

Do we have the right to "same sex" spaces. Many toilets and changing rooms are now unisex and as long as there are cubicles, I can't see the problem.
As, I said, I don't think anyone with a y chromosone should compete with women in sports as they obviously have an unfair advantage. As far as rape crisis centres and DV shelters are concerned - generally no they shouldn't be able to work there as there is too much potential for abuse by non genuine sex offender etc.

ShotsFired · 23/02/2018 10:58

But the whole point is that there won't be this pick and choose that you suggest @Dungeondragon15!

It's all or nothing.

So ALL changing rooms, cubicles or communal. ALL rape centres. ALL gynae procedures. ALL children's clubs and residential trips etc

So you are either for ALL that; or you aren't (and want a proper debate and informed discussion on it)

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 10:58

It's fine if a man wants to pretend to be a women in his own head, how would I know and why would I care? But when that same man wants to then be placed on a female hospital ward, or sit on an all female panel, it's untruthful to say women don't suffer.

I don't see the need for all female hospital wards anway. As long as patients experience privacy on those wards, it shouldn't matter.

I don't really care if trangender men are on all-female panels. Considering they are a very small minority, I won't make much difference and let's face they are likely to experience as much, if not more discrimination as women in the workplace etc.

RoseWhiteTips · 23/02/2018 11:05

A person might feel like a duck. That does not mean they ARE a duck.

The rest is a game of smoke and mirrors.

UpstartCrow · 23/02/2018 11:05

Dungeondragon15 There is no privacy in hospital. You are in one of 6 beds in a bay, and there are curtains around your bed which are only shut at night.
At least try to have some empathy for women locked on to a psychiatric ward.

You are confusing transsexual people with trans activists.

BertrandRussell · 23/02/2018 11:07

So if a woman has been raped, she should accept being cared for by a male bodied person?

What do you think about the fact that transwomen are already competing and winning in women’s sports, and violent crimes committed by transwomen are being recorded as crimes committed by women?

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 11:07

So ALL changing rooms, cubicles or communal.

As I said, I don't have a problem with communal changing rooms if there are cubicles.

ALL rape centres.

The people who work at the centre choose the employees. They are not going to employ someone who has decided they are female last week and clearly wants to work there for some ominous reason. Also I am sure that women can choose whether they wish to be examined by a particular health care professional.

ALL gynae procedures.

Men perform gynae procedure anyway. Obviously women (or men) can ask to see another healthcare professional and they will still be allowed to do this.

ALL children's clubs and residential trips etc

Men work at children's clubs and go on residential trips anyway!

Gacapa · 23/02/2018 11:09

Transwomen are men. This is a morally neutral fact and there is absolutely nothing that can change it. Nothing at all.

To say transwomen are women is a lie.

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 11:09

So if a woman has been raped, she should accept being cared for by a male bodied person?

I don't think a women (or men!) who have been raped should have to accept being examined by anyone they are not comfortable with whether that person is male, female or transgender.

BaronessEllaSaturday · 23/02/2018 11:11

Dungeondragon15 How about personal care for someone unable to do it themselves. What about medical examination following a rape. What about therapy also following rape . How about the communal changing room at my gym.

UpstartCrow · 23/02/2018 11:11

Dungeondragon15
You are being very selective in your answers, are you being disingenuous?
What about womens sports, if you cant empathise with sick or traumatised women.
Why is someone with a penis in a womans prison? Martin Ponting was found guilty of multiple rapes.

Please explain how trans women are actually biological women.

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 11:12

What do you think about the fact that transwomen are already competing and winning in women’s sports,

They should be excluded from competing against women in sports.

and violent crimes committed by transwomen are being recorded as crimes committed by women?

I don't care how they are recorded.

BertrandRussell · 23/02/2018 11:12

“ don't think a women (or men!) who have been raped should have to accept being examined by anyone they are not comfortable with whether that person is male, female or transgender.”

So she asks for a woman, gets a transwoman and at that point in her traumatic experience has to speak out. Blimey.

You didn’t comment on the sport and the crime points, by the way.

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 11:16

You are being very selective in your answers, are you being disingenuous?

I don't think I am being selective at all.

What about womens sports, if you cant empathise with sick or traumatised women.

I can "empathise with sick and traumatised women" Hmm As I said, if someone is traumatised they should be allowed to choose who does and doesn't treat them but that happens anyway.

Clearly transgender women would have an unfair advantage in sport so for that reason they shouldn't be allowed to compete against women.

UpstartCrow · 23/02/2018 11:16

Sex offences by women are on the increase but you don't care.
Do you see how it will affect safeguarding in the future?

traviata · 23/02/2018 11:16

cubicles - see multiple MN posts and elsewhere describing how;

men have followed women into cubicles, trying to assault them - so you could be locked into two square metres with a predator;
men have photographed and videoed women over the top of cubicles from the one next door;

How do you suggest the rape centre should distinguish between the person who want to work there for some ominous reason and the person who really, really feels they are a woman and wants to work in a women's space?

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 11:18

So she asks for a woman, gets a transwoman and at that point in her traumatic experience has to speak out. Blimey.

I am pretty sure that if someone asked for a woman, the people who work in rape crisis centres wouldn't assign a transwoman without checking that it was okay first.

UpstartCrow · 23/02/2018 11:18

People who dont care one way or the other about sex segregation shouldn't be making decisions on behalf of people that need or want ses segregation.
Ask for a third unisex space instead of pushing your agenda on everyone else.

Can we bring the thread back on point. Can anyone actually explain how trans women are women?

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 11:19

men have followed women into cubicles, trying to assault them - so you could be locked into two square metres with a predator;
men have photographed and videoed women over the top of cubicles from the one next door;

They can do that even if the toilets are designated "female only"

treaclesoda · 23/02/2018 11:19

Men work at children's clubs and go on residential trips anyway!

But they don't share bedrooms with girls. What with being men.

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 11:22

People who dont care one way or the other about sex segregation shouldn't be making decisions on behalf of people that need or want ses segregation.

Well I am not the decision maker. I am just stating that I can't see the problem myself with mixed changing rooms if there are cubicles. It clearly makes sense to have mixed and single gender for those that do mind though and as that is possible and happens in many places (including my workplace) I don't see it as an issue.

Dungeondragon15 · 23/02/2018 11:24

But they don't share bedrooms with girls. What with being men

My children have been on many residentials over the years and I can't think of a single occasion where teachers have shared rooms with the children. They are always kept separate.

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