To think that children are babied too much these days

[BlueMirror]

I think it's really sad that many children aren't allowed the independence I had when I was younger. We live on a very quiet road and while some primary age children are allowed to play outside and climb the trees in the field opposite many aren't.
I also know of 18/19 yr olds who live at home and are basically treated like young teens with their parents calling them by the minutes to check on them, restricting where they can go/who they can see. They are adults!
Aibu to think that if you aren't even allowed out of the door by yourself until you're 11 then you're not going to be fully independent by age 18 and that adolescence now seems to extend into the 20's for many young people?
Supervised 'play dates' for 10+ year olds now seem to be a thing going by threads on here! What happened to going and knocking on your friends doors and seeing who could come out?
For comparison it was normal when I was younger to walk yourself to school age 7 and children played outside from much younger. By the time you hit your teens you were expected to be responsible and behave as an adult with all the freedoms that go with that. Aibu to think that kids are generally overprotected these days?

But long hours and workaholism has been proved to be bad for mental health. That's why countries like Scandinavia are moving away from long hours to 6 hour days...they're also rated as some of the happiest countries in the world.

One wonders why they have high suicide rates, if they're rated as such happy countries. Norway, Sweden (and Finland) all above the global average, and higher than the UK according to this.

www.who.int/gho/mental_health/suicide_rates_crude/en/

Isn’t that thought to be daylight related?

I had complete freedom to roam as a kid. We did healthy activities like fighting with bamboo canes, "truth or dare", "knock down ginger" and "chicken" in traffic. Luckily there wasn't much traffic. My friend's brother had great fun throwing batteries into a homemade bonfire until they exploded into his face and he ended up permanently scarred. We enjoyed trespass into derelict buildings as well. One kid got hurt whilst our rollerskating on her own (no other kids out that day) and had to crawl down the road on hands and knees with a broken ankle. That's not character-building, it's dangerous. Kids do not have the judgement or good sense to be unsupervised in the street before 11. Yes, all were given instructions by their parents about what to do and not to do and most escaped unscathed, but that's not the point. Kids are not adults. They make stupid choices and do stupid things. They don't see or understand the danger. Most abuse happens within friends and family when the child has no parental supervision and because the kid doesn't have the maturity to understand abuse and what to do about it. Abusers aren't usually parents (I used to work with social workers).
I let my older child take the bus and train on her own to school, to visit friends, to go to town or the park. She's independent and sensible. When a man followed her and a friend in a car, They nipped onto a passing bus and phoned me. My DD1 can cook, keeps herself and her stuff tidy and organised and picks her sister up from school on occasions. I can't understand how waiting until a child is sensible enough to make mature decisions before letting them out unsupervised is a bad thing.

Daylight is almost certainly part of it, but the fact remains that happy people tend not to commit suicide. Therefore I've always been a bit cynical about findings that have these countries as top of the happiness leagues.

Happiness is neither here nor there, it goes up and down for anyone. Contentment and having a purpose are key.

Happiness and suicide are connected because the more happy the rest of society seems, the worst your own problems feel in comparison. The connection between happier countries and higher suicide rates has been noted and also holds true for happier States in the US. And of course there's the issue of how likely a coroner is to declare a death a suicide, Catholic countries for example have low suicide rates because coroners are less likely to put suicide as the cause of death whereas Scandinavian countries don't have the same stigma against suicide so they are declared more often.
Daylight changes, high levels of alcoholism and in Finland a culture that is not big on mental health also have an impact. Also rates are higher in Sami people especially recently with climate change having a big impact on their traditional way of life.

What put me off letting my kids play out in the cul de sac we used to live in wasnt cars or the fear of peadophiles-it was the General arsiness of the neighbours, moaning about 'kids in the street', 'kids playing out til late' (6 in the evening once ), 'kids playing within 10 feet of their car'. This attitude about 'feral' kids, that were actually just kids playing football or tag and just well, being kids....The kids genuinely weren't doing anything untoward-you could hear them playing sometimes-and that apparently used to offend people. Such a shame.
I get that there are concerns about traffic and in some less safe areas you can't let your kids out.And of course all parents are going to be concerned about other people doing their kids harm-but there does seem to be a lack of calculated risk taking now-of ensuring that kids are aware of what's ok and what isn't, of mitigating risk as far as possible (giving curfews and deadlines, sending them out with a phone and a plan) but letting them go a bit.
I've just moved to a village out of town a bit. My girls get dropped to school and picked up by me. I said that next year when both are at the same secondary (and will be 11 and 13) they could get themselves home by walking together (probably with some of their friends) from
School into town (half a mile) then getting on the bus home that drops them outside our door (where the bus stop is). The reactions I got from friends and family were akin to if I'd suggested they hitchhike home!

Yolo my DC choose their own activities. They have loads of time for free play as well.

Of course. We should send them down the mines once they turn 5. Lazy good for nothing kids.

sladurche There does seem to be a big difference here in what kids did who were let out to play a lot. I knew very few kids who played chicken on the quiet roads, but I did know some. I thought they were stupid. I remember thinking why would you play that? What I remember from playing outside for hours is playing elastics, skipping games, imagination games, tag, pretending we were the secret seven or famous five, riding our bikes. And I lived in a very rough area that was notorious. But I was also an intelligent kid who actually did know what could be dangerous and so did not do it.

Yeah Yolo, DH takes home £10K a year. London salaries really depend on the type of job.

There is a world of difference between children who are sent out with no supervision at all all day and hang around in shopping centres and those who play fairly close to home with a group of friends that look out for each other. I think parks and cycle tracks are fine for letting children play out. Children need time away from Parents to explore and make mistakes. They have to be taught how to protect themselves of course, and what to do in an Emergency, but they should be allowed to make decisions and learn from doing the wrong thing occasionally. They need to try things out and learn to cross a road. Most roads have crossing safe points somewhere.

If children are over protected they never really get out in the world. They don’t want a university away from home, or a job, or study abroad and certainly don’t have resilience. Their life chances can be reduced and social mobility is compromised as well.

Well in that case @crunchy, surely only the “intelligent” children, like you were, should be allowed to roam free..? I seriously doubt the parents of the children who played chicken with cars expected that’s what they’d do when they let them out to play.

I think the point is that some children (unlike you) aren’t mature enough to play out unsupervised at the same age as others are. I also think peer pressure and the fact that it sometimes seems as if the most reckless / meanest kids often end up leading the group can lead to even sensible children doing stupid, reckless things if they aren’t supervised. If someone was 100-% sure they had a sensible child who was also resilient enough not to give in to pressure from other dcs, then crack on.

I don't care if neither of my younger 2 go to uni at all, never mind Oxbridge. When my younger cousin got into UEA, my GM, who brought me up, said, "You could have gone to university." I said, "I didn't want to."

I want my younger 2 to do what they want. DD wants to work for an animal charity.

I did all those things you mention in the garden and the playground. I was very young and there were older kids doing it, so at 6 I thought I could do it too. I think the implication you made was that I was stupid. Far from it, I was top of my class at school, just not steetwise. I was a very little, naive kid who wasn't mature enough to understand the danger. Obviously, when I got to 10/11 I wouldn't have done any of that because I would have been sensible enough to recognise the danger. My youngest DD (9) stepped in between two boys having a fight with bats they had got out of the school sports cupboard and got whacked in the playground a while back. She didn't see the danger, her first thought was to stop someone getting hurt. This is my point. Kids aren't legally responsible for their actions until 18 for a very good reason. Only at 10 can they be prosecuted for some things. Until then tgey arent considered capable of judgement. Outdoor play can be done in the garden or in other people's gardens or in a playground, or at a park with an adult. When they get to secondary age, then they can gradually be given more responsibility.

@Sladurche, i agree it should be gradual and only if the kid shows enough maturity and that they can be sensible. I started going to the playground alone for 20 mins at a time at 9, then walking to town, then getting the bus to school at secondary. I'm sure if I'd "failed" one of those things and come home 3 hours late or stinking of fags, my parents would have taken away that freedom!

There are some fairly young kids who roam the streets on foot and on bikes here. They play chicken across the main road in winter when it is dark by linking hands across the road to see if the car will stop. They throw eggs at cars. The kids who play out unsupervised are the ones who should be supervised.

I think parents are by and large more responsible these days. My sister and I were allowed to roam, and tbh my mum didn't have a clue where we were or with whom. It is as just luck that nothing bad happened. My mum is quick to point out the possible weirdos on the Internet and disapprove of my daughters use of the Internet whilst ignoring the fact she never knew where we were! At least I can place safety procedures in place and know where my children are.

@CB1234 -spot on. Parents are more responsible these days. I will incrementally give my children responsibility according to how ready I think they are, but I certainly won't still be supervising them at 18 unless they are being particularly irresponsible.

We didn't have a garden. And at 6 we still had parents keeping an eye out at us playing outside which had to be just outside our houses.
And I was not naive, and would not be coerced into doing something older kids did. But we stayed well away from kids who did that kind of stuff.

Agree with you slarduche. My now 12 year old was ready to start meeting friend in the park just before she was 11. She now makes her own way through and from school, goes into town for the cinema or coffee shops but not much else. There is another town near us which is bigger which she isn't ready for. My now 10 year old has no interest in freedom and I may be wrong, but I can't imagine him wanting the same level my eldest had when he is almost 11. I try and strike a balance between what they want and what I think they are ready for with the aim of having them fully independent by 18. Secondary school really hurries them along. I was definitely doing more at that age but I don't think that's a good thing.

I agree, Slarduche. But on MN, everyone lives in a 'quiet cul-de-sac' and if you don't allow your kids to hoon round as they please from the time they can stand up, you're a helicopter parent whose kids will be stupid and naive and live at home forever and doomed to amount to nothing. Yolo, for example, seems to be under the impression that adults like with their parents because they have been cossetted. There's a parallel MN universe still stuck in the 1970s.

I think parents are forced to be more responsible now, and 'wrapping kids up cotton wool' isn't a choice but something parents feel they have to do. It's governance of parenting. I'm pretty sure social services involvement, parenting books and parenting 'experts' weren't so prolific 20 + years ago.

Apart from on this thread where every other person lives in a no go gangland area where kids are used as drug mules!
I've never known anyone not let their 11 year old take themselves to secondary school so it's strange how all this risks disappear over the 6 week holiday between year 6 and 7. 11 year olds clearly become invincible to traffic, paedophiles and being drawn into antisocial behaviour in that time - it's quite remarkable!
The truth is that children mature at different rates. A sensible 9 or 10yr old is going to be much safer and better behaved out and about than a less sensible 11 yr old in my opinion.

And kids are far far more likely to be viewing pornography/groomed on an iPad on a nice safe play date with a family who don't have the correct filters on their kids devices than they are to be exposed to anything sexual playing outside.