To hope that we can follow Iceland in banning male circumcision

[GladAllOver]

It really is time that this nasty practice is stopped.
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/18/iceland-ban-male-circumcision-first-european-country

It's a requirement in the Torah so yes it is a requirement for Orthodox Jews who follow that. But the Jews don't live in a theocratic state anymore obviously.

I didn't realise how much it was dying out actually, but then the majority of Jews in the world are not orthodox.

msmith tattoos are already 'banned' in the sense that this ban is proposed. You cannot get a tattoo if you are under the age of consent. You cannot tattoo another person without their consent even if its a baby.

I hope you didn't think this ban was on all elective circumcision? It isn't...it is a proposed ban on circumcising others without their consent. I am guessing if you'd woken up one day as an adult and someone had circumcised you without your consent you would be suing the shit out of them no matter how much cleaner you felt!

Lizzie so once the majority of Jews have declared it not to be an important part of the culture any longer, will you change your mind and back a ban? Or do you believe any religious extremist group can claim the right to do whatever they choose to babies?

Not read the full thread. But will be glad when this barbaric mutilation is stopped. Hopefully it will happen one day.

I'm pretty religious myself but rituals and laws must come second to laws of the land and human decency.

I don't back or oppose a ban! I don't particularly agree with it, it's not a Christian practice. It's actually not something I've thought about before this thread tbh, unlike FGM, which I've always opposed and isn't even included in the Scriptures of any of the major religions.

Christians have to be careful about dictating to Jews actually, as we're very vulnerable to the charge of anti-Semitism, we've been very guilty of that historically.

But I wouldn't oppose a ban, no. I think it's something that would have to be pursued with the Jewish and Muslim communities' support.

Good for Iceland. IMO ear piecing people unable to concent should go the same way. A adult can do what they like to their body but I don't own my child's body.

I predict a court case in the years to come, a (now adult) child suing their parents/circumciser for cutting them. How do people think that would go?

NewYearNiki

That video is horrific. How can anyone let their baby go through that, and a stranger mouth on their newborns cock? What parent would allow that, its just vile. I have never seen anything like that before and now kiind of wish I had not watched it at all but curiousity got the better of me

The suggestion that religious beliefs are not based on any evidence is bollocks.

What evidence exists to prove religious beliefs They are just..beliefs.

Am like 500 posts behind but that video made me want to post now. That was horrible.

I am not for one minute suggesting that male circumcision is acceptable,personally I think it is wrong to impose it on a child too young to speak for themselves,but the posters up thread saying that male circumcision is just as bad as FGM are wrong. FGM involves removal of the clitoris. If the equivelant was done during male circumcision,the whole head of the penis would be removed. Also,male circumcision does not leave the person with problems their whole lifetime,such as urinary incontinence,menstrual problems (because only a tiny opening is left for menstrual blood to escape) repeated infections due to not being able to discharge urine and menstrual blood properly,difficulty giving birth and severe pain during intercourse. I really don't think the 2 procedures are comparable.

Well done iceland,a civilised society. We scream out loud about FGM but its ok to brutalise a male baby in this way.

Perhaps now more mums will go to Iceland

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole

I was the same I never click on u tube awful videos i also wish I had never ever seen that.

RE FGM,

I totally get what people are saying but at the same time boys are being left with badly disfigured penis, they are, they are being left unable to pee, with all sorts of problems, again no one wants to see but google botched circumcision and there are hundreds of photos out there of well - mangled little boys penis.

I think its the fallicy like up thread " oh its fine its simple....the baby cries no more than if he dropped his dummy" its simply NOT TRUE.

LOL @Jason

To the poster saying that complications are uncommon, there is something called distal urethral stenosis, which affects about 10% of circumcised boys (this paper says 5-20%). It’s caused by chronic irritation of the exposed meatal head and results in scarring of the end of the urethra (which would normally be protected by the foreskin). At best it’s uncomfortable - reduced stream, UTI symptoms with burning. If severe there can be kidney damage. It needs an operation to fix.

www.thesurgeon.net/article/S1479-666X(16)30179-2/pdf

And the link!

Are you actually serious? That's such a deeply offensive thing to say. The vast, vast majority of boys who have been circumcised are completely uneffected. Tell that to the ones who bled to death. Oh no you can't can you.

I don't back or oppose a ban! I don't particularly agree with it, it's not a Christian practice. It's actually not something I've thought about before this thread tbh, unlike FGM, which I've always opposed and isn't even included in the Scriptures of any of the major religions.

Christians have to be careful about dictating to Jews actually, as we're very vulnerable to the charge of anti-Semitism, we've been very guilty of that historically.

So should we ban FGM because Muslims do it but circumcision is OK because Jews do it as well?

I think it should be banned too. I know a Jewish friend of mine who was very relieved she just had girls so she didn't need to face the dilemma. Another of my Jewish friends did do it. The rabbi (not a doctor) did it on the dining room table with all the family there. The baby screamed and screamed and it got infected afterwards and he was quite ill - so more distress to follow. My friend, his Mum, was very distressed about it but did it to her other son afterwards. And yes I do very much care for her as a friend.

I know another guy who had a circumcision as an adult so he could marry his Jewish girlfriend - though I think he didn't have to get on the dining table in front of all the family!

There's something about being able to ignore the screams of a baby more easily than a grown man that distresses me.

All religions need to adjust and grow. I totally agree that it's on a par with FGM and there is way more to religions than one ritual.

The difference is that FGM is already illegal, so the law should be enforced in this country. Male circumcision isn't illegal yet, maybe it will be eventually and then yes it should be enforced too.

But, as others have said, male circumcision isn't the same as FGM, FGM is at a completely different level of barbarity. It's not like for like.

You stand a better chance of implementing a ban on male circumcision if you get the leading Rabbis and Muslim leaders on board. Muslim leaders supported a ban on FGM, and it is now illegal. That's the way to go if you want to achieve success, I think.

I can also imagine an awful lot of men who have suffered in many ways wouldn't have the education to even know the reason they may have issues with it is because of the circumcision especially in third world countries where very life itself is a daily battle.

As information and the truth floods out as it will with the internet etc, on this and all sort of things I imagine many more men will say no more!

I like that analogy of waking up and realizing you have had a procedure done too you. I linked earlier to men suffering all kinds of issues when they realize what has been DONE TO THEM.

Bouledeneige

i wonder how much research she did before allowing him to have it done! Or was it even a choice for her?

I just cant imagine any loving mother allowing it after what I have seen and read about it. I just find very overtly sexual and controlling elements to it as well. On a table with the family standing round

I do get what you're saying. But Iceland is a very small country, possibly without a large Muslim or Jewish population? In this country, for a ban to happen, you would need to get the Muslim and Jewish community leaders on board.

The vast, vast majority of boys who have been circumcised are completely uneffected

Based on what stats.

One hospital in Birmingham ONE admits a child with life threatening complications each month,. Thats one hospital they see hundreds a year from botched operations. The NHS itself only does as it a last resort and uses the words invasive, some men out there are having plastic surgery done to restore it

I cant imagine growing up with ONE BOOB being told, actually, you had two but in our religion that YOU HAPPENED to be born into...we cut off a boob.

If you had happened to have been born to parents of X religion we would deny you medial help if you need it.

If you had happened to have been born into X religion we would teach you your an alien on earth and subject you to truth sessions,

If you had been born into X religion we would have sliced off your clitoris....

BUT DARLING you got the BOOB must go one...sorry.

All very HANDMAIDEN.

dont need jews or mulsims on board the uk is secular or technically a christian country