To hope that we can follow Iceland in banning male circumcision

[GladAllOver]

It really is time that this nasty practice is stopped.
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/18/iceland-ban-male-circumcision-first-european-country

So it's done in America on basis of 140 years ago a man said all medical ills will be solved by cutting it off. and it's just been done ever since.

My own anecdotal evidence I just asked dh if he would like it done, shocked look on face and a hell no.

All of my male relatives, friends, and previous partners in America were circumcised. I've never met a circumcised adult man who wished he had not been circumcised i find it creepy that you had talks with your male friends and family about there penis's and about 80 percent of men are circumscribed in the us and i also find it unlikely for example if you had 20 male friends family and partners in the us the likely hood of none of them being un circumcised is 1.2 percent

How about religious freedom for FGM? isn't that ok? is it because its men babies can be mutilated ye baby girls cannot be?

A waitress, right, so you won't come back to me thread or answer why it's OK so many young babies are in a critical condition due to being victims of a procedure you call quick and painless!

Well there by the grace of God go I

@Alis

Can I counter your anecdotal evidence with my anecdotal evidence that my BF recently got a circumcision (for medical reasons) and now sex is way better, for both of us.

I am totally against it being done on babies for "religious reasons".

We do not live under a religious government, we live in a secular government. No-one should have an operation without their consent, because their PARENTS are of a certain religion! That's absolutely ridiculous. For the same reason I would never baptise my child - I don't have a right to "make" them any religion (I'm atheist, but lots of my family are Christian). They can decide it for themselves when they are adults.

JeffsNewAngle Sexual abuse has to have a sexual motive to count as sexual abuse, surely?

Both of my sons were circumcised on the 8th day after birth, as commanded by G-d, and reflecting the covenant between G-d and Abraham that is one of the primary tenets upon which Judaism is based. It’s not a mere tradition, and it’s not based on outdated hygiene practices. It comes directly from G-d

Is there some rule that prevents jews from writing God?

Genuinely interested. Along the lines of muslims not having images of Allah?

bluepears If your male friends are Jewish or Muslim you can guarantee they will most likely have been snipped, so there i snothing "creepy" about knowing they have. Take a deep breath and calm down.

I am always very confused by the suggestion that this is, or should be, a religious requirement. Can God not design male bodies to the spec they want in the first place?

If my new phone came with a pre-installed app which I thought might be quite useful, AND with an insistence in the manual that I immediately disinstall that app because it would have a negative effect on my phone's performance -apple/Samsung or whoever felt very strongly that my phone should NOT have this app - then my response would be 'so why are you sending this device out with it pre-installed then, ffs?'

If an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent deity is responsible for the design of the male mammalian anatomy, & doesn't want men to have foreskins, why not just change the bloody spec & have them born without?

You can't logically HAVE 'this is a perfect creation, but you need to trim a bit off'.

It's a total nonsense, & if adults want to adapt their bodies that's generally fine. Strimming bits off babies because of a complete logical fallacy - yes, that needs to be outlawed.

seriously Circumcision may not cure all ills but rates of cervical cancer and HPV are significantly lower in Jewish women. Fact.

It comes directly from God

What. A. Load. Of. Bollocks.

Bollocks to you maybe. Not to the people directly affected.

@PurpleCrowbar, that is a very good point.

Snort. Let's respect religious dogma rather than 21st century sensibilities. What a great idea.

I believe we should be banning ear piercing too. We do this to our little girls for completely superficial reasons. Why do mothers inflict ear piercing on little girls? Is it because it is the done thing in our society? Have Our social norms enforced a belief into our daughters that putting holes in their bodies so they can stick some metal into it is going to make them look more beautiful?

Before we start preaching to others to stop their practices, have we stopped our barbaric practices on children under 18? No, we advertise and glamourise this on our high street which tries to entice our dd’s into sticking needles into their bodies.

Over 100 babies die every year from circumcision.

And people are OK with that?

ABypassRuns if we remove all breast tissue it will 100% prevent breast cancer why do we let woman carry on having such protentully dangerous things why not as baby / young children have them serigcully removed so they will never suffer from breast cancer?

Bluelady

Without derailing this thread to much, yes, I'm afraid it is bollocks.

Believe whatever nonsense you like in your own time, but when you use it as an excuse to permanently mutilate babies, then I'm afraid the rational amongst us get to tell you that it is bollocks.

RhymeSlime

I agree with you actually. Ear piercing should be a child's choice, not the parents. I think it's acceptable for those younger than 18 though because it's risks are minimal and it's reversible. Unlike circumcision.

Would you be happy with tattooing babies for religious reasons? That's probably a more accurate comparison.

Is there some rule that prevents jews from writing God?

Yes there is - I’m not Jewish but remember studying it in RE. Some debate about how widely it extends I think.

I haven’t noticed any difference having sex with a circumcised man or an uncircumcised man save that it’s much harder to give a circumcised man a handjob. The difference to the male experience may be far greater however.

Another vote here for waiting until the child is old enough to make their own decision.

in the torah is expressly forbids cutting 'You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh on account of the dead or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the Lord." and the quran does not mention circumcision

You can't claim rationality and dismiss other people's religious beliefs.

Incidentally that 100 deaths per year quoted above is for the US, not the UK and has subsequently been discredited.

Patriarchy, I am not comparing circumcision to ear piercing. I am saying that we cannot ban circumcision on the grounds of consent, when we actively promote little girls getting ears pierced. It is hypocritical to suggest stabbing little girls’ body for non medical reasons is ok but cutting little boys’ body is not.

'You can't claim rationality and dismiss other people's religious beliefs.'
peoples religious beliefs are not rational and even if the 100 number has been discredited and say the numbers is one that is still one to many a child has never died from not having a circumcision

Bluelady

You can't claim rationality and dismiss other people's religious beliefs

Really? Why? Believing in something that has no evidence is the definition of irrationality.

Not sure it's compares to a tattoo because that's still not the permanent removal of a body part...