AIBU to think this child shouldn’t be in my son’s class?

[HicDraconis]

A boy at DS1’s primary school - P - arrived a couple of years ago having been excluded from several other local schools. He was violent and prone to angry rages if things did not go his way. One break time he jumped on DS1’s back and thumped him around the head. DS1 back kicked him off (he’s a brown tip belt in karate) and was taken to the office for observation (possible head injuries) for the afternoon. P has chased another boy through 5 classrooms and thrown a chair at him, smashed up one of the teachers’ laptops (family had to pay to replace it), that kind of thing.

This year DS1 started a new school (year 7, Intermediate, state school for what it’s worth). He sat an entrance exam which got him into the accelerated extension stream - this is a separate class from the rest of year 7 and maxed at 30 pupils.

Surprisingly, P has also been placed in this class as an extra. He can’t keep up with the standard of work, is disruptive and interferes with the ability of the other students to get on with things. When questioned, the head said he was put in that class for reasons of “strategy” - he didn’t sit the screening test but they think he’ll be easier to handle in this particular set.

The class teacher says they’re aware of his back history, that “strategies are in place and they are monitoring the situation carefully”.

When we accepted DS1’s place it was on the understanding that if he couldn’t keep up with the standard of work he’d be put into a different class.

DS1 is apprehensive about the possibility of being hit again. P has already scribbled over a piece of his artwork so far and we’re only a week into the new term. He’s also disrupted the class with bad behaviour, had various verbal warnings and one strike for verbally abusive behaviour.

AIBU to think that they’re doing P a disservice by putting him in a class where he won’t be able to keep up? Surely he’d be better looked after in one of the standard sets with a 1:1 TA (which he had at primary)? AIBU to think that if they were going to increase the class size to 31, the space should have gone to someone who narrowly missed out on the exam scores?

Ahungrymum when those specific comments were made, the OP had stated she had specifically asked about the reasons for the boys difficulties etc. Also made assumptions it must be due to poor parenting, lack of academic skills etc. The OP has since clarified the info was given freely by the HT and she had made assumptions.

The OP has also, very reasonably since clarified she has taken comments on board etc.

If you had a child with SN’s you would probably take offence to the earlier miscommunicated comments by OP. We have to deal with this day in and day out. It gets very tedious.

I would also add whether any child has a disability, a special need or whatever we want to call it, undentified disabilities or needs, a not so good home life, mental health issues, a bereavement, learning difficulties, emotional difficulties, physical difficulties or none of the above etc, etc, is totally irrelevant and shouldn’t be enquired about, even with the best intentions!

If any child beats another child around the head, it’s unacceptable. The correct response is to take that specific incident up with the school and ensure the safety of YOUR child. Not to enquire about personal details of another child!

That's not true of all martial arts. Most of my family do martial arts and ju jitsu for eg is all about self defence. There is no point scoring or competitive element to it at all. It entirely learned in order to defend yourself from attack.

We actually had a case of one child finding out about another child’s difficulties recently. Not the fault of school I might add, but one mum telling another about her own child.

Child overheard other mum gossiping about it to someone else. Went into school and repeated it back to talked about child. Poor child was mortified, extremely upset and told his mum he would never trust her again.

All children have a right to education. Your argument that he must be stupid because he is ill behaved doesn't hold up, intelligent children are more often than not challenging in school. The most intelligent person I know cause £10k of damage to school property once, obviously there was a lot more but this is an example of how he behaved. You have no way of knowing whether he is keeping up or not. If you want your little darling to only go to school with the naice kiddies then that is something you will have to pay for. If you can't then you should be grateful that he is actually getting an education despite your inability to provide for him. Until the school demonstrates a lack of appropriate management re this pupil then you have no right to complain just because you don't like him.

The boy needs to be in class. Unless it affects your child then you are bu.

Exactly zzzzz I would have serious concerns about OP’s school, where confidential info is given to other parents so freely. Imagine the playground gossip flying around about ‘disruptive’ boy and how damaging.

@zzzzz re the experience question, I have experience of being bullied at school, including being pushed into the road on the way home from school, whilst there was traffic coming, by a kid in my class (there were other incidents with him too). He did not have SEN, he was just a little bastard. He ended up alright in the end, largely as a result if an ex-military step dad who came on the scene when he was a little older who didn't take any nonsense from him. So I know from experience that I am right that not all violent/badly behaved children have SEN, some are just little shits (which could still include the violent kid in OP's son's class, we just don't know either way). An epilogue to that story - he ended up working as a personal trainer at the gym my parents went to. My dad one day reminded him of the road incident. He didn't believe it until he went home and asked his Mum about it who confirmed it and added "and you were a right little sod!" apparently!

I've also historically worked as a solicitor doing criminal defence work for a decade, which included plenty of youth court work, some of which included representing those charged with assaults on classmates, either inside or outside of school.

So if you are looking to undermine me by suggesting I don't know what I'm talking about then I'm afraid you are out of luck.

As a teacher, I prefer to teach a difficult children amongst a class who will have a good influence on that child.

OutyMcOutface I had every intention of sending him to the private prep for years 7 & 8. We looked around both schools, he chose the state intermediate because he preferred it. I did too. I am not sure where you have the impression that I’m unable to provide for DS1 P not being up to the work levels of an extension set does not make him stupid.

Shed your comment about playground gossip makes for highly uncomfortable reading. He’s been the subject of much of it in primary - from parents whose children have been the subject of his rages and wanted Something Done. Can’t really do much about what is past, but I can make a concerted effort now not to be part of it & to actively shut it down at the new school.

SuburbanRhonda DS1 warned P to stop twice. After the second time he used his training to put P on the floor safely, without hurting him. He was very scared he’d get into trouble for it as we aren’t supposed to use karate outside the dojo and we’ve drilled that into him - he has a stronger punch than I do - but in this case he used it appropriately. His karate teachers thought it was a good use of his skills. Much of what we learn is self defence and that’s what he used. I was impressed that he kept his head while it was being beaten personally.

Nobody wins in these situations. Children can act or react violently for all kinds of reasons from trauma to SN to bad parenting to bullying.

I was the parent of the child who hurt others for a while, 8 or 10 occasions. Every single time school disciplined him harshly and dumped him back into class to fail again. He had anxiety from bullying and lack of support for his moderate emotional needs and it broke his MH and mine, we have been forced to move area and school and frozen out by former friends and other parents. He's now doing fine in a different mainstream school where they actually listen.

So I feel sorry for the kid P, and those who have to learn alongside him, but don't make any mistake who is the real victim here. One kid has his future chances crumbling away, the others have had a few interactions with an unpleasant classmate. The system fails them all.

Hic you sound very reasonable and thank you for considering my point.

My son has ASD, it’s a hidden disability, he is extremely passive and quiet (not saying this is a good/bad quality, just descriptive) he was excluded and severely bullied by his neurotypical peers for years.

I don’t know about the boy in your story, regardless of any needs he may or may not have, kids can be very unkind, particularly when fuelled by parents views.

AHungryMum what you don't say you have experienced is being in the position when people are constantly want to know your business and are constantly judging you and your child. People includes professionals and members of the public who think it is ok to stare and make comments. There are plenty of threads on here where people think it is good that parents or carers explain the child or adults behaviour and apologise even when it is obvious the person concerned is severely disabled. Imagine that expectation everywhere you go. If you are in that situation you can feel like you have no privacy at all.
So when someone says they have a right to know things they have no right to know, you will find people get annoyed about.

I love how everyone assumes he has SEN. Some kid's are just trouble, end of.

Violence, throwing chairs, being disruptive to the point of not getting any work done sounds like a learning difficulty to me.

What would a child have to do to prove it?

Why don't the rules apply to this kid. If you have to pass an exam to be in the class and this kid didn't even sit it then surely he has no right to be there. On that basis the exam is meaningless as any kid could just turn up.

One kid has his future chances crumbling away, the others have had a few interactions with an unpleasant classmate.

NotMeNoNo I am sorry you and your child had such an awful time, but the consequences on a child of being physically attacked by another are not "a few interactions with an unpleasant classmate". It can adversely affect their entire experience of school, and make them constantly fearful. It's really not right to minimise it as you have done here.

This thread is frightening. As a teacher, I strongly believe that children should be able to attend school without having to be physically harmed. Sadly this is becoming less and less common as my teaching career has progressed. Yes, everyone has a right to education, but not to the detriment of other children. No one child is more important than another.

Anxious- as a teacher why are you not applying for the funding to support the children with SN’s?

Funding? Ahahahahahahahaha.

Funding is cut to the bone

Local school has 3 TA as 1:1 with 3 violent children (doesn't stop them hurting others as they wait til play time)

Yes funding. Every school is given a notional SEN budget. If this isn’t enough you apply for top up. If this isn’t enough apply for EHCP. That funding.