to feel sorry for my friend with the eco-warrior DH?

[k2p2k2tog]

(sort of lighthearted but not really)

Very close friend is married to a professional eco-warrior. He's employed high up in a green charity and has in the past been involved in Green politics. They have two daughters of school age. Friend also works but not in the green sector, she's a nurse.

Because her DH is a dyed in the wool "knit your own lentil" person, he has to be seen to walk the walk as well as talk the talk. Nothing non-eco. They do have a car, but he cycles to work and she takes the train.

But what makes me feel REALLY sorry for her, and her girls, is that they have bought a touring caravan for all holidays. Despite the fact they're earning good money and could afford a week in the sun somewhere, they spend every holiday cooped up in a tin box so he can show what a WORTHY person he is.

They are currently in Wales. In the freezing cold and rain. In fucking FEBRUARY.

It is gorgeous in South Wales today...

I couldn't stand it. But then I don't think I'd have married him, because I wouldn't have found him attractive in the first place.

Is she intending to talk calmly to him about small changes? Ie that she would like to go on holiday abroad and that this is totally normal?

It’s amazing a man being ideological about being green is lauded when any other man imposing his views on his wife is a bastard

i see nothing wrong with a caravan holiday, friends of ours have a lovely Caravan i would gladly spend a holiday in which has aircon and heating, they get away all over the UK and Europe getting to experience snowy winters and roasting summers plus they can take their dogs everywhere too

"It’s amazing a man being ideological about being green is lauded when any other man imposing his views on his wife is a bastard"

We don't actually know that his DW is anything other than an enthusiastically consenting partner in this, because she likes their caravan as much as he does. It is OP, an unrelated person, who is being concerned in her behalf. That concern could be entirely misplaced.

If the OP had been from the DW, and had said that she didn't actually like these holidays, then there would have been a very different set of responses.

Exactly.

OP has got a bit of a pasting because of a silly assumption that heat would automatically be preferred. Even when giving what she thought was an example of a very different holiday to the week in Spain initially mentioned, she picked an Italian villa instead. Which both have in common that they will be effing boiling.

Now if OP knows her friend is yearning for a warm week, fair enough. Though it seems unlikely because she'd have said so by now. But if not, even if the DH is an over bearing dick generally, OP is BU to take the stands she does on holidays.

"It’s amazing a man being ideological about being green is lauded when any other man imposing his views on his wife is a bastard"

Okay, where's the evidence that this man is imposing his views on his wife?

OP you sound quite envious. Not sure if it's envy over their seemingly happy marriage, their financial stability, the fact they clearly enjoy spending time together even if it's not in a hot destination, his career success or simply that he seems to have values/ethics he does his best to stick to. But there's definitely something there or you wouldn't be so interested in and have an opinion on something that for all you know they're all happy with.

Envious. Heard it all now. That's right, I'm super jealous of her freezing her bits off in a caravan in February. Lucky old her. I have done the caravanning bit as a child and in bad weather, it sucks.

Our personal circumstances as a family have nothing to do with it - as it happens we're probably on double their family income and have been married twice as long. We quite enjoy spending time together, in a nice, warm self-catering property or preferably some destination where wellies and thermals aren't on the packing list.

Got to love the MN amateur psychologists who think they're all so WISE and KNOWING.

Got to love the MN amateur psychologists who think they're all so WISE and KNOWING.

To be fair you do seem to have done an awful lot of armchair psychologising yourself about your friend's preferences and relationship despite having nothing to do with the situation

Maybe you're not envious but there's definitely some reason you're so invested in this. Methinks the lady doth protest too much

Well I'm sure the caravan gets used in the summer as well. It's February so obviously it's not going to be hot. They didn't have to go anywhere at all so at least they are having a half-term away. There's nothing wrong with trying to look after our planet and more people should try it.

K Is it so difficult to grasp that different people like different things?

What a Time - surely there's a happy medium between wrecking the planet and holidaying in a caravan in February?

And Tinkly - I'm not so sure that Friend does like it. She makes the best of it because that's really her only option. Other types of holidays are out of the question because of the refusal to fly anywhere (train/driving to the continent not practical from where we are) so it's the caravan or nothing. She never says "Ooooh yippeee lucky us we're off to Snowdonia this half term for three nights in the caravan! It'll be amazing!!"

Thing is, OP, you have not mentioned how your friend feels about this. You wouldn't like it; we get that. You find her DP to be a self-righteous prick (which may well be the case: most eco-men are, because all the hard work of a righteous lifestyle is generally left to their female partners) but does she get tired of his preaching and penny-pinching and guilt-tripping, or does she have similar views?

He does realise his DC will grow up to own 4x4s go on all inclusive holidays 3 times per year and have every labour saving device and the central heating turned up to 27 degrees

He does realise his DC will grow up to own 4x4s go on all inclusive holidays 3 times per year and have every labour saving device and the central heating turned up to 27 degrees

I'm imagining the teenage rebellion now - "YEAH DAD, I;m going to have a cup of coffee in a DISPOSABLE CUP and book a flight on Ryanair!" I wonder how it will play out when his girls get to the stage of school trips as most involve flights.

It's increasingly clear that you don't actually know how your friend feels about all this and especially not about holidays. You're just projecting your views: I dont like caravans in the cold weather and I think warm places are nice, so she must too. You might be right but you don't appear to have ever actually asked her. It's all assumptions on your part.

We'd love a caravan or motorhome.

This 'one cannot possibly catch a train from where we are ' position is nonsense. It may be expensive, yes but it is an environmentally-friendly option and a really fun one at that. Overnight trains are amazing fun and a great way to explore Europe.

You're still talking about your preferences, rather than your friend's. You suspect she may not enjoy it. Is that it? The entire basis for your concern and this thread?

Either she has bought into the green values, or has done to some degree, or she hasn't. If not, she is surely quite capable of standing up for herself and saying that actually, while she recognises his preferences, she would prefer to do something different this time, whether as a family or separately. That's certainly how it works in families I know where one parent has a belief that the others don't share. Discussion, negotiation, compromise, consideration. Normal stuff.

If he is domineering and she downtrodden that's an entirely separate issue - and he'd have retained that personality whatever his particular values.

'This 'one cannot possibly catch a train from where we are ' position is nonsense.'

FWIW, there are more than a few places that don't have a train service anywhere near them. We don't. The nearest one is an hour's drive away.

But K I am going off in a caravan in Feb because DH really likes it, I find it a pleasant enough thing to do. And we live in the north. We have holidayed all over Europe for the past 25 years without flying. We did the sleeper from Belgium to Italy loads of times, kids loved it. Ditto the ferry to Santander.

And having a caravan actually makes going abroad easier because they can stop overnight halfway to a port if they need to.

I have many unhappy memories of caravan holidays in Wales as a child in the cold and the rain - and that was in August. Nothing would persuade me to do it in February.

I laugh when I hear people talk about saving the planet "for our children". I do what I can to save the planet - without being extreme - but in spite of this my DS couldn't give two hoots. He leaves lights on all over the place, never separates his recycling from the rest of his rubbish, spend hours in the electric shower, gets taxis for journeys he is perfectly capable of walking or catching a bus for and he would always choose a holiday which involved flying - in fact last year he went to 2 destinations in a week, flying back home for a day in between. Multiply my DS by the vast numbers of selfish teenagers and young adults who do the same and you wonder why we adults bother when they don't care! .

Well yes, but you can get to a train station - maybe even in a camper van, if not bus, taxis or lifts are available. The OP's case seems to be that they are 500 miles from the south coast and that this makes catching a train to the continent impossible. I'm just saying that it's entirely possible, it just adds a day, or night, plus a lot of expense, to the journey - but could be part of the holiday adventure. It is by no means impossible or undesirable.

And the bottom line is that OP doesn't even know whether her friend has ever bothered to look into alternative transport and holiday options - because she doesn't even know that the friend is unhappy with her UK camper holidays!

'one cannot possibly catch a train from where we are ' position is nonsense.'

Catching a train from where we are is entirely possible. Someone mentioned taking the train to Italy, so just for a laugh I thought I'd see how long it would take me to get to Naples by train from Glasgow, leaving tomorrow morning. I could leave Glasgow at 14.40 on Saturday and be in Naples at 20.20 on Sunday, after 28 hours and 40 minutes on a train, and after changing stations in London and Paris, and further changes in Strasbourg, Basel and Milan. Doesn't that sound like a lovely, striaghtforward journey?

Or were I travelling in the summer, I could drive to Edinburgh, hop on a plane and be there after a flight time of just under 3 hours for £177.