To not want my future child lied to?

[cjferg]

Dh and I agree we won't be lying to our soon to be born child about anything. We both know how much it can fuck any relationships up and undermine trust.

Massive argument with MIL recently about santa. She thinks we are being ridiculous to not want to tell a pointless lie more often than not used to control children's behaviour. I think there is enough beauty and 'magic' in the world already without making shit up. I'd rather teach them about that.

Also our kid is going to get lied to enough by everyone/thing else in life so why would we want to add more?

And lying to avoid awkward questions is just a lazy cop out. In this day and age a kid is probably going to find out about sex and stuff like that pretty young anyway and I'd rather tell them myself if they asked than them find out some half baked version from wherever else.

Why on earth would you want to say Santa isn’t real and forfeit an opportunity to get your kids to behave for three months every year?

Be prepared to go vegan.

I bet you still lie to save yourself from uncomfortable situations OP or just because.... everyone does sometimes and far more regularly than they'd like to admit or realise.

It's life. People lie. Sometimes for bad reasons. Sometimes for good reasons. Sometimes because it's easier. Sometimes for no particular reason. Sometimes because they don't even realise they're doing it.

Wow, OP, you are coming across as massively unpleasant, goady and really over the top. What a cold way to parent. Why on earth would you not want your children to experience the magic of santa or fairy tales? Pathologically lying to your children about absolutely everything probably will give them trust issues. Letting them believe in Santa definitely won't. Get a grip. This should be about your child, not you.

You could always spin it with a bit of historical fact. There was a Saint Nicholas, Christmas does have meaning (Jesus if you're religious, kindness/family/winter equinox-ish if you're not) without Father Christmas -although I encourage my own children to believe he exists for now, even putting boot marks to the fireplace- and books like "Yes, Virginia" are quite good at balancing fact with fiction.

Good luck with parenting!

Ahh, all the things we were going to tell/not tell do/not do with our children before they were here 🙂

I am amazed that the majority of the posters on here can’t see how utterly bonkers their views are. Only on mumsnet is not believing in Santa akin to child abuse. It is absolutely fine for children not to believe in Santa - the world won’t end. We never talked about Santa and as far as I know my children are unscathed and amazingly enough they haven’t been taken into care! Seriously some of you need to grow up - you sound about 5.

Santa isn't a "lie", it's just folklore. Zero children are damaged by realising he's not literally real. Overthinking.
But more to the point you had an argument about a non-existent child with your mother in law? Poor mil.
You do sound kind of angry about an imaginary future situation.

But for every kid who just gets on with their life after finding out they were lied to by their parents about something pointless there will be another who subconsciously or not gets trust issues and is actually affected by it.

Tbh if you get screwed up over finding out Santa ain't real, there's no hope for you- you don't have the resilience required for this world.

IDK to me there's a difference between a white lie (your violin sounds GREAT) and saying a dude literally comes into our house at night when nobody is around to leave presents, and then keep it up year after year.
Why can't I just tell the kids a nice story about it and say 'this is why we give each other gifts at christmas

So now you’re saying ‘white lies’ are ok?

That’s quite a leap from Dh and I agree we won't be lying to our soon to be born child about anything. We both know how much it can fuck any relationships up and undermine trust

Jesus wept , wait till they are here

With my experience in psychotherapy I can honestly say "mummy and daddy lied about Santa " is not a reason for trust/attachment/ relationship issues

Give me strength

Ohforfoxsakereturns

I just wanted to fit in most of my young life. When I learned that having hte same trainers/listening to the same music/being the same as everyone else wasn't going to magically make me fit in and started to be ok with who I was and what I liked I actually got some confidence. And it made me fit in better ironically...
Also learning to not care what judgemental arsewipes say was definitely a turning point.

"Kids are mostly fine with who they are and have no confidence issues when they are small."

I take it you have no actual experience of child rearing?

Plenty of children are timid from a very early age and/or need a lot of support to cope with their own overwhelming feelings if they can't do what they want or be exactly like someone they admire- it's a part of child development. It's quite a normal thing for a 3yo to go into sobbing tantrums because they can't have red hair like the nursery teacher they admire.

It is normal for children to make things up and want you to play along. If you can learn to do this with good humour, you will be helping their development. If you are constantly on their case insisting on telling the truth, they will most likely start to feel they are always being criticised and not good enough for mummy. This may lead to permanent confidence issues.

This is not about whether you choose to do Santa at home or not: I don't think that matters one bit. It's about whether you are prepared to be sensitive to the child you've actually got and to their needs, or stick to a preconceived idea of what children are like (read: ought to be like).

And if you are going to be a sensible and successful parent, you need to develop the level of judgment where you can both teach your child to be tactful about other people's shortcoming and speak openly to her about sex and relationships and other things she needs to know.

We did Santa as a bit of fun. Never stopped me in any way from talking to dc about contraceptives later in life. Or about relationships. Or about anything they needed at that time. Being a good parent is about listening to them and seeing what they need at that particular stage of development.

Of course you need to explain sex to young children. But you need to explain it in an age appropriate way, not just blurt out anything that comes into your mind.

My son was 6 when he accidentally found out that an adult he loved and looked up to had been murdered by her boyfriend. I can't tell you how much damage that did to him or how long it took him to get over it. If I could have spared him by telling a lie, any old lie, that would have made so much of his childhood so much better. But you think one should tell the truth about everything. Because you've never seen a 6yo wanting to jump out of a top floor window because he cannot bear the pain of knowledge that is too much for him.

Adult recognition of what the truth is in some circumstances, is not something children are necessarily able to deal with at a young age. You need to "lie" or hide the truth somewhat until they can cope with the actualities. And this is coming from a mother, who has always carefully explained many, many things to my kids at a young age, but in words they could comprehend. That has been an advantage to them as they got older, but there are just some things that don't need the full light of day shone on them when those kids were very young.

As an example, my best friend whose children regular played with mine, was repeatedly beaten, finanacially abused and raped by her now ex-husband for a number of years. When she left him and ran to our house with her children in tow, my then 3 and 6 year old children wanted to know why.

In that circumstance, your insistance on the truth would have been horrifying and incomprehensible to a child. Yes I "lied".

Hands down, I 'd put money on - you will at least obfuscate the truth to your child in the coming years. Righteousness is all very well as a concept, but at the coal face?

wow! Just wow!! However we too do not use ‘santa’ ect to control our kids behaviour because we think that’s just plain wrong, however we still do santa, it’s ok for you to let your kids believe in magic without using it to make them behave a certain way!! I think people who don’t do Xmas for their kids are utterly selfish and don’t take into consideration the joy the magic can bring them.

Well I'm not reading 12 pages on this thread, I can tell you now....you're going to deprive your child, the magic of Christmas are you, well good luck with that!

Not read the thread.

We don't perpetuate Father Christmas. Hasn't stopped any of the fun. Have still visited FC occassionally. DD knows it's someone dressed up but it's still lots of fun. Still do stockings etc. She just knows that gifts come from people who love her. Reduces the commercialism too.
I hate the idea of trying to control her behaviour like that as well.
However, at some point over the last year DD has started to believe. She still knows the ones in shops are people dressed up but somehow she's picked up that FC delivers presents.
I know other friends have had the same experience.

Her first tooth came out rather traumatically and much earlier than we realised they did so it caught us off guard. Too many tears all round to have a chat about the tooth fairy. In fact we didn't even realise she knew about it! So we have reluctantly ended up with tooth fairy visits.

Do you think observing the tradition of Father Christmas is in some way psychologically harmful? I would be interested to read peer reviewed research on the impact to mental health on the Father Christmas lie...oh wait...

But ask yourself what harm could be done by deliberately excluding your child from a culturally ingrained tradition that will be observed and enjoyed by almost every member of his peer group. This is much more of an issue, I think.

Ultimately you're the parent - it's up to you. My parents told me the "lie" but deep down I knew it wasn't real. I think that is the case for most children, even if it's on a subconscious level. But I will never forget the lengths that my parents went to to make Christmas magical for us, and a lot of that magic centred around Christmas Eve and the expectation of the visit from Father Christmas and the reindeer. Even after I was 100% sure it was fake, I felt such a sense of gratitude that it had been made so special for us.

Wdigin2this
Depriving children?
Magic only comes from a story?
Do you not have the imagination to actually make your own magic?
That makes me sad.

You're just overthinking this hugely.
I don't think you're bravely planning to parent in a new groundbreaking way. You'll still "do" Santa but explain it's a story as lots of other parents choose to do.

Most children work it out for themselves after a few years by rationalising. Just as you soon realise that the magician isn't really cutting a woman in half.

Most parents try to educate their children about relationships and sex.

I'm always amazed when people think they've reinvented parenting.

showme hits the nail on the head

Do you not have some lovely, magical memories from Santa visiting you as a child at xmas? I certainly do and wouldn't rob my child of that. You might be preparing them for a more grown up version of the world but also setting him/her up for bullying when every other child in their class is excited for Santa. Don't steal their innocence prematurely. And when it's time to stop believing, let it come organically as they grow up- it won't be some tragic, I can't believe you lied about Santa moment.