Are bare arms demeaning?

[RoseWhiteTips]

Former Canadian PM Kim Campbell sparks debate with claim women's bare arms on TV are 'demeaning'

Kim Campbell sparked a wide debatewith a tweet which said sleeveless outfits "undermine credibility and gravitas".
She linked to a blog by a man, Dr Nick Morgan, who wrote thatwomen they will look "less brilliant" if they wear sleeveless outfits.

In his blog on the Public Words website, Dr Morgan wrote: “Think about what this means when you put on that sleeveless dress, women, or that expensive, cool-looking casual t-shirt, men.

“Apparently, we humans are pretty simple creatures.If you show up in front of us with skin exposed, we’re going to think about your body.If you’re wearing lots of clothing, we’re going to think about your mind.”
(Evening Standard)

Is she being unreasonable to hold this opinion or does she gave a point?

Although, it does make me laugh a bit when people talk about 'work' as though everyone works in an office and does presentations. In many jobs, bare arms would be fine. In others, absolutely not. It's not the arms though, it's the armpits.

If I was in hospital, I wouldn't want nurses leaning over me with bare armpits, and I definitely don't want chefs or waiters or my dentist to be flashing their armpits about.

There's nothing 'demeaning' about it though.

I wear sleeveless smart dresses to work sometimes, it tends to be hot indoors. Anyone who doesn’t like seeing arms can stuff it. I’m good at my job and I look smart.

I would feel naked with bare shoulders/upper arms but I have often seen women from Spain and Italy presenting at conferences with bare shoulders and they look great.

They’ve always got nice lightly tanned even skin rather than pasty white conrnedbeef coloured skin with random tan lines in summer like me :(

@somerford BOOM!

It’s rare I’m first in with the good ones ...

Thank you thank you.... I’m here all week badum-tisch!

I wouldn’t tolerate a sleeveless man nor so a woman

Do you set the dress code at your place of business? I assume this is what you mean, you don't permit it?

In the company I work for ( very formal corporation) you'd be told in no uncertain terms to keep your comments to yourself or face a disciplinary hearing. However I am sure you don't work for us. I wonder why

Bluntness100, yes we have quite a strict dress code. I interpret and enforce that code - although I can’t imagine anyone turning up bare armed.

I don’t agree at all but I really wish it was easier to find smart dresses with sleeves!

I really wish it was easier to find smart dresses with sleeves!
I hate it. Too close to the skin and the danger of sweat patches.
I'd much rather wear a sleeveless dress and a looser fitting light blazer.

No, mine aren't demeaning in the slightest but the sunburn the get when it's warm enough to not cover up is excruciating.

Most of my dresses are sleeveless - I wear mostly swing dresses. I must be truly wanton.

I'm surprised to find it's a "thing" in the UK tbh; I'd just assumed it was an American custom with the whole christian modesty (and associated pearl clutching) some of then have got going in public sectors over there. Just from reading news reports about the scandals on the internet that is, I've not really looked into it hugely.

I'm surprised to find it's a "thing" in the UK tbh; I'd just assumed it was an American custom with the whole christian modesty (and associated pearl clutching) some of then have got going in public sectors over there. Just from reading news reports about the scandals on the internet that is, I've not really looked into it hugely.

I've been a software consultant in both US and UK finance sectors, and I haven't discerned any major difference in the dress code, apart from where US corporates were influenced by the Silicon Valley 'casual' of the 90s, which eventually trickled over here.

The fundamentalists don't have any influence in corporate environments in the US! Surely you can see the difference in the demographics.

I think, fundamentally, women's arms can be quite sexy and so it's a legitimate question - particularly when you consider that it's not OK for men to go sleeveless in corporate environments.

And the cold. Anything which puts women at a disadvantage to my mind is always a big issue - men able to walk quickly, get ready for a meeting in two second, wearing warm clothes and have pockets v what women sometimes have to put up with. I always just find it a lot easier and quicker to go for wearing a work jacket, ideally the same for every meeting so I never have to think about what to choose and am never cold either in it.

I always have my shirt sleeves rolled up. I feel uncomfortable with them rolled down, and everywhere I have to work is always too hot. I would never give the slightest consideration to whether women do or don't have their arms covered, unless they're in a setting where they're not allowed to cover their arms (nurses/doctors/physios/etc.).

Whoever said it's not the arms it's the armpits is spot on.

The thing is, I wouldn't wear a dress with no sleeves to church, my children's school performance or to court (actually I remember one girl being told to cover up in St Peter's in Rome because she had no sleeves). I think of sleeveless clothes as being for a night out or the beach.

I always wear short sleeves or 3/4 sleeves for work in summer. It seems unprofessional to wear capped sleeves, tank top style or a vest top to work (I wear them on days off though). It would be like a man wearing a sleeveless vest to work, not appropriate in most settings.

@MuseumOfCurry I'm just going by what's reported over here, such as the protest in Congress last year over women having to wear sleeves. I'd expect tech industries to be less formal.

Have you watched Suits? I always think that the outfits look completely unrealistic, and would be frankly inappropriate in the real world. It's a tv show, the female cast looks great, but it's not real.

I was just going to post about Suits, but not about the woman. In order to avoid spoilers, I will just say that one male character, who is normally very snazzily dressed in expensive suits and shirts, appears in a short-sleeved "dress" shirt . (Is it even called a dress shirt if the sleeves are short?) It really stood out to me.

Our high street fashion is so poor that those women who want sleeves especially on dresses are probably restricted for choice. The sleeveless look was probably designed by someone just to make more money as they are cheaper to make and then women have to fork out for a cardigan or those horrid mini-blanket things. Then further expense as bras might be visible so only certain colours go with the dress etc.

I cant abide long sleeves.
Too long working in the NHS!
God knows where those cuffs have been

For some reason this reminds me of the young hero in the Scarlet and the Black staring at his beloved's arms all the time.

Who knew that arms were back to being a thing.

The PM's comments are about women on TV, not bare arms in general and I think she's right in this instance. Do you think they elect to dress like this? They have to.
And yes, they look as if they're off to the beach or a party, not presenting news. It's not about prudery but seriousness.You simply do not see men in comparative clothes on TV.

In a slight twist on the way women on TV are pressured to conform. A male presenter took on the sexism against female presenters in Australia:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2014/nov/17/male-tv-presenter-same-suit-year-female-colleagues-judged