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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

is there anything that could reconcile you to Brexit?

140 replies

RebeccaWithTheGoodHair · 14/02/2018 10:08

AIBU to think Boris Johnson's latest initiative is just another exercise in words that mean nothing? What does stuff like 'hope not fear' actually mean?

I want to write to my MP (again) but I'm running out of ways to ask him to explain what the actual fuck any of it means. He just bats me back and says to read Hansard and that the PM is completely clear but I can't make head nor tail of what their plans are and how they then plan to get the EU to agree to them.

I genuinely now want to be reconciled (whatever that means) but AIBU to think there can't be any reconciliation because no-one will say anything other than what they want to happen with no explanation of what will happen in the real world.

I fucking hate this, the whole mess of it and the fact it's now being led by bloody hardline Tories who think repeating that we need 'get over it' is some kind of response to valid concerns. Get over what? What does any of it mean.

OP posts:
TheArtOfNoise · 14/02/2018 14:29

Nope!

Unfinishedkitchen · 14/02/2018 14:34

I’m a remainer but I do have increasing concerns about EU freedom of movement. I’ve been reading more and more news stories of Far Right speakers from Eastern Europe who’ve expressed anti-Muslim, anti-lgbt and anti-Semitic views attempting to speak here. These trouble makers appear to have decent sized followings in the UK within their communities. There was even a Polish charity found to be attempting to raise funds for only white Polish war veterans.

There needs to be more control over who were are allowing to come here. It seems to be a lot easier to stop foreign non-EU racists such as jihadists coming to spread hate here (which is why they do it over the internet) but less control over EU trouble makers.

One of the reasons why the UK is one of the most successful countries in the world is because it is largely tolerant and peaceful in regards to difference. Yes we have some homegrown trouble makers who strive to create problems but there is no need to import more.

Justanothernameonthepage · 14/02/2018 14:36

If they manage to sort out a trade agreement with the EU that only leads to a max 10% price increase on food and necessities. If they are able to ensure no customs to allow trade chains to continue as they are. If they reduce immigration requirements for needed roles (including both NHS & chefs) and if they stand up against the USA demands to reduce food quality for imports and to make the NHS fair game for American health companies.
Oh and if we get away with paying the EU 4billion or less a year and retain human right laws.
Then I'll admit I was wrong and reconcile with Brexit.

So far it's not looking likely though.

YesItsADebate · 14/02/2018 14:39

If I could get a job in the Netherlands, I’d be happy!

I still think that this Buzzfeed article is the best explanation of Brexit, complete with cars on fire.

MotherWol · 14/02/2018 14:40

I think our choices come down to Brexit In Name Only, or Hard Brexit. I could just about see myself being reconciled to the former, if it meant staying in the single market, keeping free movement, and perhaps using the powers the government already had (but just chose not to enforce) around immigration. We might have been worse off, we'd have less influence on the EU's decision-making process, but I could have come around to it if it meant we weren't burning all our bridges and the people who voted leave felt their vote was respected.

However, the Brexit Ultras in government have been pushing for the hardest of Brexits, without any plan for how we'd actually cope, and Theresa May can't stop them. Her speech about how there'd be no soft Brexit, 'citizens of nowhere' etc has just deepened the divisions in this country. And I fear that many of the people who voted leave because they didn't feel like the EU benefited them won't see their lives improve after we leave. They'll still be angry and there'll be even more cuts, and they won't get what they thought they were voting for.

GladAllOver · 14/02/2018 14:46

Brexit will be a disaster for the UK. And there is no answer yet for Northern Ireland.

MissionItsPossible · 14/02/2018 14:50

And I fear that many of the people who voted leave because they didn't feel like the EU benefited them won't see their lives improve after we leave. They'll still be angry and there'll be even more cuts, and they won't get what they thought they were voting for.

I hope that does happen (not in a spiteful way, hear me out). For far too long put governments have been able to shift blame onto the EU and never held accountable. Well now they can't hide. And if people get angry, people excercise their right to vote. Governments will be held accountable with no smoke screen or able to point their fingers (except at each other with boring predictability).

BMW6 · 14/02/2018 14:53

special subject
Well if you want to Save the Planet no-one needs to eat salad crops in winter!

BWatchWatcher · 14/02/2018 14:56

Nope. I'm in NI. Brexit is a bad idea.

TrickyD · 14/02/2018 14:59

And I fear that many of the people who voted leave because they didn't feel like the EU benefited them won't see their lives improve after we leave.

Too right. The 'Have Nots' stupidly voting to have even less.

sixteenapples · 14/02/2018 15:03

Well that degenerated pretty quickly!

It would be worth having a sensible debate but that won't happpen on here. sahme because it is important that we, not the politicians, know what we want and how we might get it. We need to think about what good we can get out of this and how we can prevent the "bad stuff" happening to others in our community rather than actively hoping it does happen and enjoying it.

That attitude goes some way to explaining the reasons for the Out vote in the first place.

NewYearNiki · 14/02/2018 15:08

Actually yes. This made me less concerned.

Come 2025 we won't be a member state anymore so not our problem.

is there anything that could reconcile you to Brexit?
is there anything that could reconcile you to Brexit?
Justanothernameonthepage · 14/02/2018 15:13

Sixteen apples. What good stuff do you think we're likely to get? I know several proud Brexiteers (and some who regret it). They all voted for different reasons, but even the loudest Brexiteer doesn't expect anything to improve- he just thinks the pain will be worth it not to be tied to the EU.
(Main reasons the people I know voted leave ranged from thinking it would help the NHS, increase/decrease immigration, protest vote, cause recession )

Helmetbymidnight · 14/02/2018 15:39

I don't understand your post, sixteen.

You think people voted Brexit because they were annoyed at some remainers?

Jaysus.

And now, 19 months after the ref, you think 'We need to think about what good we can get out of this and how we can prevent the "bad stuff" happening to others in our community'.

FFS. Its unbelievable. Brexitteers fucked us over - they can get the fuck on with it.

FluffyWuffy100 · 14/02/2018 15:40

I would be reconciled if there was a clear plan and there would be a tangible (economic and social) benefit to the country. Which there isn't. So I am not.

Topseyt · 14/02/2018 15:41

Nope. Nothing will ever reconcile me to the Brexshit Show.

I might just about be able to come to terms with a very soft Brexit, so BINO. Unfortunately, that means giving up our place at Europe's top table and having little or no influence over the rules and regulations we will still have to abide by.

This means that Brexit is no just a shit show, but a totally pointless exercise.

FluffyWuffy100 · 14/02/2018 15:41

And I fear that many of the people who voted leave because they didn't feel like the EU benefited them won't see their lives improve after we leave.

To be honest, this is about the only positive thing to come out of the brexit assessments. The socioeconomic groups that voted for the fucking shit show are going to be worst hit.

Helmetbymidnight · 14/02/2018 15:43

Oh well Brexiteers voted for a Brexit without plan or strategy but it's now down to remainers to think of good things.

And they actually think that's a reasonable position too.

UpstartCrow · 14/02/2018 15:43

EU human rights laws are already gone. they voted them out, using the Equality Act as the excuse. But that has already been undermined.

We dont have freedom of movement. There will be delays, that is going to have an effect on movement of goods.

There is no support or guidance for business within the UK.

There is no clear plan.

I'm not seeing any upside to any of this.

sixteenapples · 14/02/2018 15:43

Helmet - that is not what I said. You have misunderstood.

The second part of my post was basically saying that we would do better to try to make the current situation work than spend the next five years slagging each other off.

DGRossetti · 14/02/2018 15:45

I’m a remainer but I do have increasing concerns about EU freedom of movement.

FOM can be curtailed for individuals in the event a member state declares their presence would be contrary to the public good, as well as for nationals not working and claiming benefits.

Just because the UK has repeatedly - almost stubbornly - refused to use those powers is no fault of the EU.

And FOM will be the key to any deal with the EU worth any substance. With the clear knowledge that it will be tit-for-tat. So if the UK ends FOM, so will the EU. If you think we have a housing and social care crisis now, just wait until we get a load of expats back in exchange for the cares they'd need.

sixteenapples · 14/02/2018 15:46

Justanother - I don't know what good stuff might happen. I do know that every situation benefits someone. There are always winners and losers. We also have to make the best of what we have.

Helmetbymidnight · 14/02/2018 15:46

We don't need to think what's good about this actually.

It's a complete shit show and its going to last a lot longer than five years.

Cherrypi · 14/02/2018 15:47

Hmm if things get so bad we rethink the whole of society and bring in universal basic income. People work less and libraries reopen.

GladAllOver · 14/02/2018 15:48

NewYearNiki
It would be really good news if the Balkans can join the EU. They will have to change considerably first to meet EU standards of democracy and human rights. They will also be subject to the ECJ and accept the existence of their neighbours.
It will finally bring an end to the Balkan wars. Another great achievement of the EU.