To think a transgender male murderer should not be allowed to win 'Miss Fitness' competition WHILE IN JAIL

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/transgender-murderer-crowned-prisons-miss-12022026

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/outrage-transgender-prisoner-living-woman-12022675

[Hont1986]

I would love to know, really actually love, not being snarky... do the posters who are pro-self-ID on here think:
1. That there are no issues with women having to share a cell/shower with a transperson with a fully functional penis?
2. That female prison officers should have to conduct intimate searches of transwomen, including genital areas (i.e. penises), or face disciplinary action and possible job loss?
3. That a fully intact transwoman, taking no hormones, should be able to compete in sports events with women?

1. Yes, of course there are issues. No-one says that there are zero. But I think they are largely overblown. I'm sure fifty years ago there'd have been plenty of people saying that there were 'issues' with cellmates of different races, or religions.
   
2. Yeah, I think this is fine. Doesn't bother me tbh. Female GPs inspect male genitals all the time. If they can't/won't carry out some area of their job and no convenient accommodation can be made, then sure, disciplinaries and possible job loss seem like the logical conclusion.
   
3. I think this is fine too for these sorts of bit-of-fun, non-serious competitions. If there's serious prize money or accolades involved then I think it's sensible to clarify that you're segregating competitors by biological sex, not gender.
   

You asked, just answering. Not going to bother replying to anyone who cares that I said cis, by the way. Don't think there's a better way to say 'not trans'.

[beluga425]

"He was a gay man. Was sentenced as a man."
A bit convenient to suddenly discover he was a she then.

[beluga425]

blackberryfairy I think you might be wasting your energy on that one!

[DreamyMcDreamy]

"He was a gay man. Was sentenced as a man."
A bit convenient to suddenly discover he was a she then.

That was my exact reaction too.

[HomeTerf]

I'm sure fifty years ago there'd have been plenty of people saying that there were 'issues' with cellmates of different races, or religions.
I'm sure there would have been. 'Issues' which may well have resulted in people of colour being beaten to a pulp. (ie. not exactly 'overblown'.)

I think this is fine too for these sorts of bit-of-fun, non-serious competitions.
In which there is suddenly no competition, and therefore no fun. Suck it up, ladies.

[noeffingidea]

Cupofcake the article mentioned something about him continually complaining about his treatment. I got the impression he's just a chancer, tbh.

[stitchglitched]

I can understand posters who say we are exaggerating because stuff like this doesn't happen. But when it does actually happen and people still defend it, I'm a bit gobsmacked tbh. How can anyone think it is acceptable for vulnerable captive women to have to shower with a violent man? Can you answer please- Why do you prioritise a man's feelings over women's safety, privacy and dignity?

[TheButterflyOfTheStorms]

Thanks for answering @Hont1986 I disagree but am glad some people engage.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

The fitness competition sounds like a farce, but it's not the issue here. The issue is why a self-identified transgender man is in a women's prison, without a GRC, without any physical transition. They absolutely should not be showering or sharing a cell with women.

But clearly some people don't think the women in that prison deserve any human rights.

[Hont1986]

I'm a cis woman, not that it should matter.

[Fekko]

No, you’re a woman. The ‘cis’ bit is redundant.

[Bejazzled]

No such thing hont1986

[Hont1986]

"I'm not an 'able-bodied' person, I'm a person"

That's how you sound to me right now.

[DreamyMcDreamy]

I'm a cis woman, not that it should matter.

So that'd be a woman then.

[AssassinatedBeauty]

It should be "I'm not a cis-disabled person, I'm a disabled person" @Hont1986, you've got that the wrong way round.

[Akire]

Woman are woman. Trans women are transwoman.

Not transwoman=woman
Woman=Cis woman.

You think if they are so desperate to get hold of title “woman” they might have inkling why 99.% of woman don’t want it to be taken from them.

[cardibach]

Yes - why do we need a way to say ‘not-Trans’? Why should woman have a qualifier added to remove the need for trans women to have a qualifier?

[Fekko]

So. If a man were to say ‘I’m a woman’ thrice (or whatever the hell) and hey presto, Jack becomes Jill - we all have to agree that he is a woman? No assessment, no doctors, no drugs, no surgery, no shave... just a word from them.

And say this person was in jail and gets moved to a woman’s facility... what if they wake up one day and think ‘hang on, I’m really a man...’ how do they ‘go back’ from Jill to Jack?

Just by saying so - is it really that easy? There are people who are barefaced enough to try this on.

[anonirat]

Yes Blackberry been there with the Godwin issue many times myself and edited my words.

But re trans stuff, they keep on saying "it will never happen", "don't exagerate", but it has and so it proves that we weren't.

If ever there was a time for calling out the 'Godwin that shall not be named' slippery slope of erasure coming from a warped ideology, this trans/ TRA stuff is it.

Aso I have noticed a large number of comments under articles etc from men saying "well you women wanted equality, now look where its got you. Ha ha.." so I think there is a dangerous element of revenge from some men for women daring to challenge inequalties.

[TheGoldenBowl]

So Hont your point hinges on the scale of the issue, I gather? You're willing to admit there are 'issues' but that they're being 'overblown'.

That's where lots of is are struggling to agree with you. Some things are straightforward. Like, is it fair to let a man compete with women in a test of physical strength?

You say - well, I expect it doesn't happen much, it's not a big deal, no one really cares...

But we say - look, it happened HERE. And these specfic women were affected.

You say - well, surely they didn't care that much?

Perhaps they did, perhaps they didn't. But the point is the principle. There's got to be a bottom line. The bottom line is: Is it a fair competition? Is it?

And, of course, if you dismiss a principle on the basis of scale - well, it's just the thin end of the wedge, as everyone is trying to tell you.

[Horridemma]

ahem! The term 'cis' is derogatory.

If you are a biological female then you are a woman.

If you have a penis then you are not a woman. You are a man or a transwoman ( who had better be changing)

Hopefully this prisoner will fully transition before he leaves prison.