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What's with all these transgender threads?!

630 replies

pancakequeenisheretosaveyou · 14/02/2018 05:43

No less than 7 on my active threads?? Is it just me who in real life hasn't encountered any transgender people?? And coming from the professional background that I'm in, I see a pretty varied side of life Confused

Am I missing out on something here??

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20
Thisusernamethingistricky · 14/02/2018 12:08

As I said, I'm not entirely comfortable with self id. But this instance is so extremely rare.

Not being comfortable with self id is straying well into the realms of 'transphobia'. Self ID is what feminists are against generally, although many also have an issue with the appropriation of 'woman' as some sort of costume to be donned and the disregard for it as a material biological reality.

What makes you think these instances are very rare? Presumably you are aware of the lengths that men go to to access vulnerable people - sports coaches, priests, doctors, setting up cameras in changing rooms (I actually have personal experience of this last one, despite having lived a generally sheltered life and being very low down on the list of oppressed women).

Yes, predatory behaviour would still be illegal in toilets, but why make things easier for predators? Why make women, some of whom may be wary of men for many reasons, uncomfortable being alone in a confined space with a man? Predatory behaviour isn't always illegal either. What about a man who is hanging around in the loos, not doing anything illegal, but making the women in here uncomfortable?

Do you believe we should just do away with sex segregated stuff generally then?

OvaHere · 14/02/2018 12:09

There are several posts in this excellent thread from someone who works with sex offenders. She categorically states that these repeat offenders are very aware of the law and it's loopholes and some have already stated they will become 'women' in the event it allows them access.

It's disturbing reading.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3162788-Whats-it-like-being-gender-critical-in-your-workplace?pg=6

DrawingLife · 14/02/2018 12:09

TellsEveryone Women suggesting third spaces get vilified, dismissed and blocked on Social Media.
There is huge fear around the debate, that's why politicians and most journalists don't speak out. The fear of sound bytes being taken out of context and used to hound them out is too great.

Yes, trans ppl are a tiny minority, but you will notice trans women in particular are extremely aggressive and noisy putting this on the agenda everywhere and branding anyone who says "wait, when did we decide this? What about the rights of vulnerable women?" a TERF and hounding them out of committees and debates. Look up what's recently gone on in the Labour Party.

For a good overview in completely neutral terms, read here: blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/can-we-have-an-honest-debate-about-gender/

Not a fan of the Spectator in general, but the article is balanced.

RadioGaGoo · 14/02/2018 12:10

Sadly, so be it then Pink. I can't change that view any more than I would change my view on pronouns.

DrawingLife · 14/02/2018 12:13

And as a life long leftie luvvie I hate how this is framed as a right - left issue. It's not.

Yes, trans rights are a social justice issue. No, they shouldn't be advanced at the expense of women's rights.

Jaynesworld · 14/02/2018 12:13

I have noticed a couple of posts which appear to be transphobic. But when your talking about a 24 page thread and maybe 2 or 3 transphobic comments, its not that many compared to the hundreds of comments who have absolutley no problem and couldnt care less if Jim wants to be Jan, or if Jan wants to be Jim.

The main issue is not trans people. The issue is the aggressive TRAs (who are mainly men) who want access to 'safe spaces'. They dont their own spaces.

At the moment trans people can access the safe spaces of their chosen sex with a GRC. Which to gain they undergo psychiatric evaluation to ensure that they do in fact have gender dysphoria.
TRAs want to abolish this system, why? Is it because in fact they know they dont actually have gender dysphoria and have autogynephilia?

Thisusernamethingistricky · 14/02/2018 12:14

Basically it seems that anything less than absolute belief that 'trans women are women' and that 'woman' is defined as 'anyone who says they are a woman' is now 'transphobia.'

Jaynesworld · 14/02/2018 12:14

They dont want their own spaces .... it should read

ThePinkPanter · 14/02/2018 12:15

It sucks though. It really does upset me a bit that that's how others perceive me.

RadioGaGoo · 14/02/2018 12:18

It's a big umbrella term, isn't it.

Belindabauer · 14/02/2018 12:18

Why not have mixed toilets etc.
Seriously what is the point in separate toilets if anyone can access them?
Any self Iding will allow a tone to use any space.

It's like this if I decided to shit in your garden his would you feel?
What if I told you I identified as a cat, and as such that is what cats do. So I will continue to take a shit in your garden whenever I choose.
The fact that I do it ingro t of your elderly parents and make them feel uncomfortable is their issue. They are felinephobics and have no business telling me what I can and can't do.
I have self identified as a cat and as such can and will enter the spaces open to cats,
I will do as a cat does, my right outweighs yours. No debate and the more you object the more I will cause a stink and shriek how prejudiced you are until my self identifying is protected by law, and your rights are eroded.

noeffingidea · 14/02/2018 12:18

RadioGaGoo so how can you tell that the individual is actually transitioning then, if there is no evidence other than their own words. How can you tell if they genuinely feel like a member of the opposite sex, or just think it would be a terrific wheeze to use the facilities of the opposite sex, and in the case of 'transwomen' , be able to compete in a woman's sport with all the physical advantages that gives them?

busyboysmum · 14/02/2018 12:21

www.commondreams.org/views/2015/06/15/jenner-dolezal-one-trans-good-other-not-so-much?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork

Interesting article here as well about why we are supporting sex to sex transitioning but opposing other forms of transitioning - race to race for instance.

Belindabauer · 14/02/2018 12:22

Noeffing- you can't, that's the thing.

Can I use the men's toilets/changing rooms because it benefits me as the queue is shorter, all I have to do is identify as a man.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 14/02/2018 12:23

TellsEveryone Women suggesting third spaces get vilified, dismissed and blocked on Social Media.
There is huge fear around the debate, that's why politicians and most journalists don't speak out. The fear of sound bytes being taken out of context and used to hound them out is too great.

Yes, trans ppl are a tiny minority, but you will notice trans women in particular are extremely aggressive and noisy putting this on the agenda everywhere and branding anyone who says "wait, when did we decide this? What about the rights of vulnerable women?" a TERF and hounding them out of committees and debates. Look up what's recently gone on in the Labour Party.

Huh? I know I am one of them. I left the labour party last month because of it. I don't need to read about it!

But alot of other people do.

Belindabauer · 14/02/2018 12:24

Can I enter the men's gymnastic team because I am more flexible.
My son can enter females sports even though he is stronger and faster than his female friends.
All you need to do is self identify.

RadioGaGoo · 14/02/2018 12:27

Noeffingidea. I wouldn't, unless they told me. But I wouldn't support them using facilities, spaces or benefits of the opposite sex, transitioned or not. I would support their request to use their chosen pronoun though.

OvaHere · 14/02/2018 12:27

The fact that the majority of posters on this thread are so careful to differentiate between pro womens rights and transphobia and would under most circumstances be polite to TW reveals so much about our socialisation as women and girls.

Try reading some male dominated forums or twitter threads where they are openly and utterly brutal in their language towards TW with not a hint of remorse.

Also read forums and threads where some TW and male TRAs are openly and utterly brutal in their language towards women with not a hint of remorse.

Then ask yourself why all the slurs and vitriol is mainly aimed at women who are trying to be supportive of gender dysphoric people whilst putting up a fight to retain their own rights in an almost impossible situation.

Hardly anyone calls men out on their behaviour no matter what side of the fence they sit on.

Belindabauer · 14/02/2018 12:29

My own teenage dd told me yesterday that I am a 'Cis woman.'
I replied that no I am not I am a woman full stop.
If someone calls them self a trans woman then fine bo right ahead but dont ever refer to me as cud.

Belindabauer · 14/02/2018 12:29

Cis not cud!

BeyondTerfyCassandra · 14/02/2018 12:32

@BishopBrennansArse I wanted to answer to you personally why I am now considered "transphobic" by many people. There are issues with self id that others have outlined here, but this is the one thing that, yes, does scare me. Apologies in advance for the massive post!

As you know, I am autistic and my children very likely so too. I understand the feeling of not being "right" for my entire life, of never fitting in, along with having issues with dysphoria when I was younger. I am not at all concerned by regular people who experience sex dysphoria and whose best treatment for that is considered to be medical transition, I have a lot of empathy for that feeling - though my own was more weight-related. However, there are increasing numbers of autistic children (especially girls, which would have been relevant to me as a child and as you know autism in girls is already massively misunderstood) who are not getting any additional mental help, as once they say they are transgender, any other help (to find out if there is an underlying cause for that feeling) is considered conversion therapy. Psychiatrists and other HCPs are scared for their jobs to question around the subject. There are posters here whose children have been denied any help at all for their dysphoria as they do not want to go down the medical transition route.

Anyway, back to the autism... these children who are presenting as transgender appear to have a feeling of their body not being right, of not fitting in socially with their peers and often of liking things stereotypically associated with the opposite sex.

This could so easily have been me as a child, and I am scared for my boys that this is going to affect them. I am scared that schools all over the UK are teaching (courtesy of mermaids, see comments about their CEO upthread) propaganda about people being "born in the wrong body". I am scared that schools in Scotland have already been told to reinforce gender stereotypes in autistic children to help them understand if they are indeed "born in the wrong body", because they like things which are associated with the opposite sex. I am scared that this then leads to drug therapy with chemo medication that is untested long term in children. Which then leads to blocked puberty, of which the mental effects (of not having a physiologically matured brain) are unknown. Just to add in here, I'm sure there are stats which say that without puberty blocking meds, 80% of children grow out of feeling transgender. When they do have the meds, nearly all continue on to cross sex hormones. They have other affects on the body (in females they can cause the womb to atophy and increase risks of certain cancers), and that then leads to essential surgery. Surgery that will sterilise them (which makes me more than a little uneasy, to don my tinfoil hat about autism and eugenics) and leave them dependant on lifelong hormone meds.

It's a cascade of consequences for children who don't understand better, being told their bodies are wrong.

BeyondTerfyCassandra · 14/02/2018 12:36

One quick link...
4thwavenow.com/tag/autism/

DreamyMcDreamy · 14/02/2018 12:38

My own teenage dd told me yesterday that I am a 'Cis woman.'I replied that no I am not I am a woman full stop.

If my teen came out with that I'd be putting them straight too!

RadioGaGoo · 14/02/2018 12:39

TellsEveryone. Apologies, it's taken me a while, but I have got there.

If someone had shown me that picture without the names, yes, I would have said it was a man. It is only because of the context I have seen a transwoman.

But you are absolutely correct. It would otherwise be a picture of a man.

BeyondTerfyCassandra · 14/02/2018 12:47

Radio, do you think the women who complained about Muscato being in the refuge with them were being transphobic? I'd guess not, as you already said (sorry, was it actually you?) that transwomen should have their own spaces for such?

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