What's with all these transgender threads?!

[pancakequeenisheretosaveyou]

No less than 7 on my active threads?? Is it just me who in real life hasn't encountered any transgender people?? And coming from the professional background that I'm in, I see a pretty varied side of life

Am I missing out on something here??

Given that prison is an entirely voluntary life style choice, I really couldn't give two shits...

Hang on, so what you are saying is that women in prison have no right to be able to keep men out of their space, but men in prison should have the right to self id as a woman in order to get into a women's prison?

Have I got that right?

Whatwever makes things harder for prisoners is fine by me and most of the prison population over 90% is male anyway. They could try not committing crimes in the first place .

It isn't the percentage. There is a young lass on twitter getting vilified because she's talking about her girlfriend and isn't being inclusive because she mentioned periods. This is what it means, women redefined to always include males.

Yes. Or TRAs like Munroe Bergdorf telling women on the day of the Women's March that they shouldnt be centering reproductive issues in their activism as it excludes transwomen.

Poffley, that was the point of my post. Indulging in the same tactics men are accused of.

Tellseveryone I wouldn't bother discussing anything with that poster. Something about them rings a bell.

You don't give two shits about the women prisoners that could be at risk or the male sexual offenders saying they are women to get moved prisons? Can you clarify? If it's the first please explain why those women aren't entitled to be safe or if it's the second are you saying male prisoners shouldn't be allowed to self identify?

I think it's time to have a separate section for trans threads, so that those of us who wish to avoid them can do so more easily. I don't doubt that some valid points are made, but I find the degree of hatred and language used deeply disturbing. It is now spreading all over the site and the subject matter is not always obvious from the thread title.

I don't doubt that some valid points are made, but I find the degree of hatred and language used deeply disturbing.

If you see anything deeply disturbing then you can report it and it will be deleted.

I see a lot of threads on here accusing Mumsnet of being transphobic. I have never seen a thread where people have suggested that trans individuals should be bullied, threatened, murdered, hurt etc
People here are angry at how trans activists are trying to tell women what a woman is. Going into womens spaces like prisons and refuges is unacceptable. Giving children hormones is an irreversible decision that people should be questioning. Punching 60 year old women at Speakers Corner for voicing concerns is what feminists before me fought to prevent.
Most people don't care if another person calls themselves male, female, dog or whatever. But they should care when others tell them what they are or aren't. I am a woman (not a cis-woman) and nobody will say otherwise.

Women who are in prison because they defended themselves against their violent partners and who prefer to be in prison to stay safe...yeah some lifestyle choice. It is patently obvious you do not give a shit mate.

And what % of female prisoners fall into that bracket?

If they "defended" themselves they wouldn't be in prison would they? Given that the law allows self defence

Tellseveryone I wouldn't bother discussing anything with that poster. Something about them rings a bell.

These are the ones I enjoy most as they never answer how they come to their conclusions that men are in fact women.

If they "defended" themselves they wouldn't be in prison would they? Given that the law allows self defence

I'm still confused MasterWu - do you think men should be able to self id as women in order to get into a female prison?

Tellseveryone I wouldn't bother discussing anything with that poster. Something about them rings a bell.

#nodebate right? And we wonder where TRA's get their strategies from

I'm still confused MasterWu - do you think men should be able to self id as women in order to get into a female prison?

I've no issue with it

So men should have the right to self id to get into a female prison?

But women in prison who object to this do not have the right to be listened because they committed a crime so thems the breaks?

And you can't see anything wrong with that? No double standards there at all?

Can I deduce from that answer then MasterWu that you think female prisoners aren't entitled to be safe from male sexual offenders posing as transwomen? If so, that is fucking abhorrent.

I think MasterWu is playing some sort of devil's advocate role here.

I agree with posters saying that transphobic posts on mumsnet are (I think massively) out of proportion with the otherwise fairly liberal views most people on here seem to hold. Makes me not want to be a member any more. I don’t think Mumsnet should allow itself to become a platform for anti-trans views in the way that it is. It also makes me suspicious we’re being infiltrated by anti-trans lobbyists/ activists trying to normalise fear and hatred of trans people, who are historically violently persecuted people themselves, not a group to fear! Wish people who seem to be so obsessed with trans people but who have never spoken to anyone (afatk) who is trans would bloomin’ educate themselves before spreading their uninformed and frankly harmful views around the place.

Given that every major political party is backing self ID with little or no debate and that self ID had a huge impact on females then I am thrilled that Mumsnet is here and allows the debate to happen.

I don't think this is being discussed enough so well done on starting another thread OP.

TellsEveryone. Could you point me to where I said I saw a woman in the pictures? I said I saw a transwoman - maybe on reflection I should have made it clear that I saw a transwoman on the assumption that Danielle is a transwoman and would have advised me as such if we met IRL.

To recap. You put up a picture. You asked me if I would be 'ok I'm totally down with the trendy kids' calling Danielle here a 'she'?'. The insinuation there is that Danielle is a transwoman, otherwise there would be no need to call Danielle a she.

I responded' If a transman or transwoman said to me their would prefer to be called by he/she/they, it doesn't bother me to do so'.

You asked 'So this is a woman? And one that you would allow into a woman's refuge'

I responded 'to me, that is a transwoman. I would not expect a transwoman to be given access to any woman spaces, be it if they decide to look feminine or not.

I said 'to me that is a transwoman' based on the earlier insinuation in your post that Danielle is a transwoman.

Like I said, I am quite happy to call anyone by whatever pronoun they want, doesn't mean I agree that they not biologically something else.

I hope that expands my thought process for you even further.

Wish people who seem to be so obsessed with trans people but who have never spoken to anyone (afatk) who is trans would bloomin’ educate themselves before spreading their uninformed and frankly harmful views around the place.

If you 'bloomin educated yourself' and read the threads, you would see that it's nothing to do with 'hating trans people' and everything to do with concerns about the consequences of allowing any man to 'self identify' as a woman and how that will effect the rights of women.

I think MasterWu is playing some sort of devil's advocate role here.

I think you’re right. No-one could be so unaware as to post what they post and then accuse others of #nodebate.

I wonder whether the freedom of speech on MN was picked up by TRAs in November last year

Most people don't care if another person calls themselves male, female, dog or whatever. But they should care when others tell them what they are or aren't. I am a woman (not a cis-woman) and nobody will say otherwise.

Stands up just to say abso - bloody - lutely to this!
I couldn't care less what you call yourself, but you do NOT get to call me a cis woman.
You can't go re-labelling the female sex just to fit yourself in there.