If you don’t see the issue with TW being classed as women please read this.

[bambambini]

Especially if you have daughters who play sports. Do we really want to have “woman” “girl” “female” totally redifined so that sny msle can say they are a woman? If yes- are you really ok with your daughters facing this now and in the future?

amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/hannah-mouncey-visits-afl-house-after-failing-to-get-information-from-officials-20180202-h0swtp.html?__twitter_impression=true

That's like saying I find it oddly paradoxical that anti-antivaxing threads always end up insisting on the weakness of the immune system, and its inability to hold its own against microbes. As others have said, women have been written off as stupider and weaker in character than men because of their biology, but nobody in their right mind denies that there are differences in biology and physical strength.

MrsMcGarry your daughter "trains" with boys - I call complete and utter pish.

Passing practice line out at a push maybe but no coach worth their salt would allow her near a ruck or a scrum with biologically male training partners - that could quite literally be a fatal decision.

I come from about the most rugby orientated family possible - with the most talented of the players still getting asked to trial for teams in his 40s - but even I draw the line at sex-inclusive team. Not because I don't believe girls are every bit as worthy as boys, but for safety, pure and simple.

I think there are rwi seperate issues here.

I am more than happy for trans men to call themselves women...ithink people should choose what gender tgey identify with most.

But there should be trans sport trans for fairness. Mind you dd was asking why there are seoerate male/ female sports and branded it sexist.

Still not getting all the trans fear on here. Meh.

Thanks, agerbil. I am glad that the movement is gathering momentum. My twitter account is in my name, has my university in my profile etc so at the moment I am uncomfortable retweeting stuff like this in case I become a target. It sounds so cowardly but I am very early in my career and haven't got the gravitas to weather the storm like more seasoned academics do. But even there, feminist professors are staying silent even though I am sure they realise the issues involved. Universities will generally no-platform anyone who shows even the remotest hint of being gender critical. Including Sarah Ditum, who didn't even say anything anti-trans.

I think I will set up a second, anonymous PERF account...

Two seperate issues even...

As for the trans cult...it's not a huge threat imo...although trans people should always be honest about their original gender so peopke can make informed choices.

Which is Mumsnet prehistory. I've been supporting women on here before Chat got its _ So, what? Yours is the only valid opinion?

Don't think so

You know, we should drop the criminal record check for anyone wanting to work in schools. After all, it's only a TINY MINORITY of people who'd abuse the system, let's make it easier for people who want to work with kids to do so.
Oh wait…
A tiny minority of people abusing the system is still too many! Besides, I think it won't be a tiny minority.

I always try to read these threads ,but I struggle to understand them..I've never grasped the term cis..I always thought someone prepared to dress and live as the opposite sex must really belive they are the opposite sex...then you read about hanna mouncy...that's where I struggle...hanna clearly looks male...she's way past puberty,all the surgery in the world won't make her what she wants...she can't pass as female..so who is she trying to kid? I've seen a trans woman shopping,and like hanna was clearly male.i feel sorry for them.i feel it's clearly a mental illness that the whole world seems hell bent ignoring..

Wow im impressed with all these teen girls holding their own with teen boys. Dd is 11 and very sporty and even at 11 there are one th if 11 and 12 yr old boys who are almost twice her size.

I remember doing hockey training with a boy at school. He hit a ball right at me it bloody hurt. Far more than any of the girls' hits. I was lucky it didn't chip the bone the bruising was pretty bad.

She has already been switched off trying some sports due to the domineering behaviour of the boys.

You are playing with fire..

Rugby can be brutal even when it's all girls or all boys.

Cannot believe you would throw your kid under a bus like that just to prove a point.

Also regarding sport and trans....penis =play for men's team
Vagina=play for women's team.
And if someone has gone through gender reassignment surgery,then there's no going back ..and they must be serious about being that sex .so let them crack on...however there can't be that many people so serious about changing sex they do have both surgerys.

I hope there's a flip side to this where trans women are taking on all the shitwork that 'cis' women do around the world, taking care of the elderly, birthing, feeding and raising tiny babies, nursing the sick and doing menial work for minimal pay.

There are, within my own experience, men who have always been men doing these jobs, and I am well aware that it is unusual. And it's got sweet fuck-all to do with the matter in hand, which is sport.

Call Hannah Mouncey she by all means, and whoever called her a freak and said she deserved cancer is beneath contempt. But don't let her play contact sport, or any other sport where physical strength is an issue, at an adult level against women who are not trans women. It's not rocket science. It's a matter of personal safety, and I don't mean safety from sexual assault, though that comes into it too, I mean safety from the inevitable damage when a person of that height and build comes into contact with someone of a typical female build.

What happened to common sense?

I believe sport should be played according to biological sex not what you think or hope you are.
In a medical sphere I treat as biological sex I.e. I tick the male box when taking bloods. It's irrelevant to me if the patient is wearing a wig, or dress.

Even if Madigan was female he'd be woefully unqualified for any political position due to lack of experience, intelligence, and depth. Surely there must be a young trans person somewhere in the UK who's better suited to the position he's been put in than he is? Expecting the public to go "yes, this is an inspirational future leader" is pissing on our legs and telling us it's raining.

Mind you dd was asking why there are seoerate male/ female sports and branded it sexist.

Transactivists and their more strong allies frequently point to kids and young folk as being the light on this issue, progressive and on the right side of history on identity politics. I think as per the above OP daughter -They’re just young, gullible, naive with little life experience - certainly not fully aware of the whole life experience having female biology brings.

Up until puberty I was able to compete with the boys and beat lots of them. After puberty had done what it inevitably does? Not a chance. I didn't get weaker or less competent, it's just that the boys turned into men and got much, much stronger. Having the kind of personality that's been described as a Yorkie that thinks it's a Rottweiler doesn't do you much good when you're being body slammed by someone who's a foot taller than you with 60% more upper body strength.

It's irrelevant to me if the patient is wearing a wig, or dress.

They aren't wearing wigs or dresses. That is the point.

My thoughts on the rugby situation are as follows (my credentials are qualified coach of both league and union, 20 years playing and rep appearances)

A 13 year old girl will NOT be training with boys. She might be doing passing drills or warm ups but no qualified coach would be encouraging a girl to tackle/scrum/ruck/maul against boys. Girls start playing against girls from 12.

I actually did my A-level PE partly in rugby and yes I had to show skills for which I was filmed with a boys team. We did passing and lineout. I had to delay the rest until I joined a female team.

In all my years of playing/coaching I have never played against a woman as big as a man. Men by their biology have denser bones, longer reach, different hip formation which allows different positioning in the tackle.

It is a danger to women to allow me to play rugby. And I am not talking about the potential risk of rape but actual physical danger because of body type.

And to answer an earlier pp. Not one of the best female rugby players would make it into the men’s team. And that’s ok. All we have ever wanted is a chance to play rugby on our own merits in our own team. We do not now need that space infiltrated by men.

And yes, ffs don't put your child's safety at risk to prove some kind of stupid point about gender and inclusivity.

We live in a democracy so there are limits on all of us. We can’t behave in a way that negatively impacts on others and the exact placing of these rights is a fine balancing act. Genuine transsexuals for me are not the problem and yes please live, work and play alongside me but there is a limit to this and people on the other side of the equation need their rights taken into account. The right of a transsexual to play alongside women stops when it is a contact sport and could seriously injure their opponent who is born women. Other areas should have similar limits -why should one persons feelings about being accepted override someone else’s e.g. when having a smear test, changing rooms etc.
Oh and on size i’m taller than my husband -he is much, much stronger than I am. I can see a time soon when my 11yo son is stronger. Ridiculous allowing this and will damage sport. It will stop when a women is seriously hurt in a mainstream sport but it’s a shame that it will need to get to that stage. If you want to change gender fine but accept there are limitations. Why do women have to do all the accepting and making room.

Male muscle fibre is 70% stronger than female muscle fibre.

What happened to common sense?

We're not allowed to have common sense because that makes us nasty old bigots

The moment women were in danger of actually becoming autonomous human beings with all the rights that entails, men started being the better woman and taking everything over again.

There will be nothing left for girls and women in 10 years time. Even the labour women's thingy is a 19 year old boy.

Transwomen are not women.

Transwomen should have their rights respected just as everyone else should, but they shouldn't be competing against women. Biological MEN, who have grown male and gone through puberty as a male are on average bigger and stronger than women. That's not sexist or intolerant, it's fact. My 15 year old boy is three inches taller than me and almost as strong.

Nobody's saying that transwomen can't compete. But rather than demanding to enter women's teams, they should be setting up their own teams. Just as rather than demanding loudly that they are women, they should be demanding that society be more accepting to a man who wants to wear women's clothes, adopt a woman's name and do stereotypically female things.

And you can fuck right off with the "cis" bollocks.

Wtf is cis gender???? Oh the irony in the clamouring to be so on trend liberal you feel the need to label everything. Sports and toilets and changing rooms need to be split according to biology self identification in these environments will obviously be taken advantage of. If you can’t see that you’re a moron. After that people can identify as what the hell they want and people also have the freedom to form whatever opinion of that they like!

It's not cowardly SusanBunch it's self preservation.

The fact that we can't discuss this openly using our real names, shows just how far down the trans rabbit hole we've fallen.

Judging by many of the comments I've seen on Twitter, including quite a few this morning, many, many people are still talking about the difference that the Mumsnet platform is having on people's ability to have their concerns aired, and they're cheering us on.

Don't apologise for being human.