To find this offensive? No whites allowed

[chipvinegar]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2018/02/12/wellness-retreat-in-costa-rica-that-bans-white-people-sparks-controversy.amp.html

I don't live an America, and I have no experience of racism in America, I somewhat understand the desire to have a "safe space" or a space to hold conversation around the issues, however the lady running it "eliminated all white people from her personal life" doesn't think white people should own passports etc

That's a lot of negativity for a "healing" retreat

The empowerment part... yeah, but the self segregation? Travelling backwards rather than forwards somewhat surely?!

Doesn't offer them fewer choices than working class white boys, however. The lowest of the low in terms of life prospects

Shit-my sons fucked then- best go tell him!

There's lots of people choosing to miss the point.

Empowerment events... yep fine. Discussion as to why they are necessary... educational, enlightening, beneficial, raises awareness and changes perceptions of injustice if not valid e.g. The imagine if a white person did this argument.

Self segregation being promoted as a better way of life and it negative to mix based on skin colour or white people or black people being promoted as bad purely due to skin colour.... offensive!

TeasndToast

There's imo a difference between retreating (a right I absolutely support) and promoting hatred, making extremely generalised statements and trying to increase racial segregation in general...

"That a white person cant possibly add any value to ones life if you're a black woman and you need to "escape" white people altogether for a better life."

Depends on your experiences of white people I suppose.

My friend lives in New York works for a major bank... and she sits opposite a person who wears a red "make America great again" hat around the office and he sits it on his desk in her full view... I think she would appreciate a retreat for black women.

I understand that. It reminds me of the time I worked in a church camp and ultimately helped to promote the sanctity of marriage (between a man and a woman, obviously...) and peddle imo sexist and otherwise discriminatory stereotypes. Some of the crap certain moral and "godly" people spouted... urgh.

This is bollocks by the way:
Historically Irish Americans were up until very recently seen in the same light. They were severely discriminated against and suffered as a group because of it. They are white.
Irish Americans were NEVER seen in the same light as African Americans!
For one thing, almost the entire NY police department WAS Irish for a very long time! (going back at least 100 years).
Not saying there was never discrimination ( as with Italians or Jews, but not really comparable).

*I was 15 btw and did that because it came with free daycare during school holidays for my sister.

I'd obviously try (and find...) an other solution nowadays but my options were sort of limited back then.

My friend lives in New York works for a major bank... and she sits opposite a person who wears a red "make America great again" hat around the office and he sits it on his desk in her full view... I think she would appreciate a retreat for black women.

You believe your friend would appreciate a Safe Space from her colleague, because he doesn't vote the same way as she does? May I ask why?

Part of the reason it's illegal to have places like this in the U.K. is because in the long run, it's also damaging for black people.

Imagine a world where there are a proliferation of black only businesses; restaurants, spas, hotels. People will start to feel the default is for black people to use black businesses and they may well start to feel unwelcome elsewhere. Plus if they go for jobs in non-black businesses there might be a feeling of 'Oh well we won't give it to them because they have lots of opportunities in black businesses.

But worst of all, and most worrying in my eyes, would be that when black people set up businesses which welcomed everybody, people would just assume it was another black only business and not use it, and it would therefore become incredibly hard for black people to access big money via their businesses.

This is really important, because black women have really excelled economically and this is mainly through self employment and owning their own businesses. It would damage them a great deal if black only businesses became common.

as with Italians or Jews, but not really comparable).

In the US.

But seeing as this seems to be a discussion about the issue in a somewhat more globalised context (seems to include the UK and Europe in general)?

The treatment of various minorities - particularly Jews, but not just Jews - is imo more than "comparable".

"Self segregation being promoted as a better way of life"

Being in a minority. Being black in the US is often hard. Even where white people arent overty racist the still support cops for shooting boys who are black, because they are black. You cant even protest in silence without being slammed as anti-American. White people, even those who aspire to be "woke" get things wrong on a daily basis. Salon.com recently reviewed Black Panther and praised it as the first black superhero movie thus erasing the career of Will Smith. The entire hair thing, the make-up reviews that call make-up for black people odd as it looks like poop when applied to white skin. And the list is endless.

Its not self-segregation to maintain racial superiority etc. Its a retreat. instead of being offended you should be feeling sad.

If it was a facetious comment regarding colonialism,then I can kind of understand it

Even if it was - and I see no indication that she was being facetious - what possible relevance does colonialism have to whether white people should have passports today?

And why suggest at all that her comments were "a joke"? If someone's going to make divisive - even racist - comments like this, shouldn't they expect to be held responsible for them?

I wonder how many people will be pissed off if a 'no black people' holiday retreat started up...

I really expected it to all make sense once I watched her interview and be a media taking it out of context thing.

I was shocked by her comments and idea that the world would be a better place if skin colours kept to their own. It's saying ALL white people have nothing to offer and black people have nothing to offer white people... NO. That's offensive

And that's ignoring the fact that your friend evidently didn't suffer racial discrimination at the hiring stage, since she is a black female employee in the same building and doing the same job as her white, male colleague.

A lot of people are conflating two issues on here. The woman in questions desire to set up a non-white spa resort (questionable depending on motive but not necessarily racist) and her views on white people as a race (not ok and definitely racist)

In terms of the spa itself, Eltonjohnsyrup is exactly right. This kind of self segregation doesn't help anybody in the long run, least of all black people. Its effectively what the Richard Spencers of this world also want, albeit for very different reasons.

Scottishdiem

I suspect Salon.com reviewed Black Panther as the first black superhero movie because Will Smith's movies are universally awful and not viewed as part of the genre. There isn't any racial element to that at all.

Its not self-segregation to maintain racial superiority etc. Its a retreat. instead of being offended you should be feeling sad.

Just that.

Greaaat we're now getting talked at by a bunch of white men who think they arent privilidged because they dont have a council house......

Fantastic!

Married

the retreat isn't the issue imo.

But here other statements are imo pro segregation. which is concerning and ultimately bad for everyone (imo).

My friend lives in New York works for a major bank... and she sits opposite a person who wears a red "make America great again" hat around the office and he sits it on his desk in her full view... I think she would appreciate a retreat for black women.

I don't see how this demands a safe space.

I can appreciate that it must be disconcerting to be the only woman of colour in an otherwise white spa, but excluding white women from a black-owned spa seems like a pretty cynical publicity ploy to me. She could have easily established it as a de facto minority spa, much like salons catering to black women.

And that's ignoring the fact that your friend evidently didn't suffer racial discrimination at the hiring stage, since she is a black female employee in the same building and doing the same job as her white, male colleague.

Are you really saying what I think you are?
That if she is a skilled enough position then she can’t have been discriminated against???

Who the heck says that this man is just as able as her and not much less? Despite doing the same job than him.
Who says that she hasnt been denied millions of opportunities before finally scrapping that job and that it STILL doesnt value her real worth?
Nope just the fact she can have a job at the same level than A white man is a sign that there is no discrimination.
That’s a very low bar to define what discrimination is......

PancakeInMaBelly/Married3Children

Its worth noting that the term 'privilege' has very specific meaning and its not quite the way you are using it. Similar to Racism = Power + Prejudice is a mis-application of a specific definition, so is the term 'privilege' a misuse of the word when applied to individuals.

in the sociological sense 'privilege' applies only to people on average, and in the aggregate. It is not an individual or personal thing, nor a matter of keeping score. This means that the word can be counterproductive in debate, when used to focus on the personal characteristics of an opponent. Accusing an opponent of coming from a place of 'privilege' or being subject to 'privilege blindness' is rightly perceived as a personal attack.

flouriad
I was quoting another poster.
IMO the word retreat there should be understood not as a spa/retreat holiday but as a retreat like an army retreating from the attack of the other army.
It’s not been able to cope with the constant onslaught of attacks (comments, fear for yourself etc...) so mouche so that you give up and go and hide.

So in that way, yes it IS sad that anyone would feel they have been under attack so much that they feel they need to ‘retreat’ and go an hide. Find a safe place. To not be under attack again.

@floriad exactly!

The retreat is not the issue! The idea blacks should create black only places all over America while white people should all stay in white only spaces... that's the problem!

The argument that well there already are white only spaces everywhere... why not black only everywhere and just all keep to ourselves, Sorry but aren't we as a world hoping to eliminate the idea a person is any less or more superior based on skin colour???

Im quite aware that they think that "privilidged" means that all their dreams came true and that if youre poor or have had hard times that proves that you cant possibly have experienced privilidge over other peoples crap but

I DONT GIVE A FUCK

cause theyre not here to hear, or discuss
Theyre here to talk AT us
So my post isnt to them
Its to the other women and to POC who know what I meant when I used the word privilidged