To find this offensive? No whites allowed

[chipvinegar]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2018/02/12/wellness-retreat-in-costa-rica-that-bans-white-people-sparks-controversy.amp.html

I don't live an America, and I have no experience of racism in America, I somewhat understand the desire to have a "safe space" or a space to hold conversation around the issues, however the lady running it "eliminated all white people from her personal life" doesn't think white people should own passports etc

That's a lot of negativity for a "healing" retreat

The empowerment part... yeah, but the self segregation? Travelling backwards rather than forwards somewhat surely?!

if she did say white people shouldn't have passports, in a historical context she has a point

Would you care to expand on this ... ?

Having events appropriate to a specific group... I appreciate

Specifically setting out to exclude and discriminate and form judgements on skin colour... I do not appreciate and find offensive

The argument that would you turn up to a Somali womens meeting, well no of course not. And if this was left with an explanation that it's a retreat for black women thus only going to appeal to those who actually are black women I don't think it would have gained much controversy

The controversy comes from the promotion that white are bad and eliminating whites people from your life is a positive thing to do.

Like I said before would I turn up at a woman’s Somali Support group no and if I did and was told well actually this group is for Somali women only we wish to discuss issues that impact us and don’t impact you.

In U.K. law there are exemptions which cover that. But they don't cover services like having a massage. It doesn't matter if people whinge about it until they're blue in the face, it's illegal here and in the US too. There's a reason why she's in Costa Rica.

And there is a reason why woman are paying to go there to have that space becuase they feel it’s needed for them

I think America is a lot more strained than we are here though which is perhaps why it's easier to sit back and debate/ wonder

All the US have a massive problem. In a few years, the majority of people will be non white people.
Very hard to keep your privileges in that position.
A lot of the reactions we see in the US is about that imo. And so is the reaction to the idea that a group of people who has been oppressed for centuries decides they would be happy wo any of their oppressors around.
It’s like they are frightened that other people, such as black, might actually treat them the way they have treated them......

Now of course, not all white are bad bla-bla-bla (just like NAMALT).
But As all whites in the US will have been brought up in an environment where blacks are seen lesser than, more dangerous, more likely to rape/kill etc etc, of course ALL white peole will have some prejudices towards the oppressed group.

Studies have shown that before, again and again.

I’m not sure expressing the idea that you have a problem with the people (and the system they created) that have been giving yu a very hard life is that surprising tbh.
Who wouldn’t?

chip if the issue you have is with the idea of race, stop thinking about the fact it’s a race issue.
Think about them escaping oppresssion, injustice and wanting to have a safe space for. The People who are abusing them.
And nor wanting said abusers around (just like ALL men aren’t allowed in women refuge btw. Even though there are some nice ones too.... the risk isnt worth taking).

I would recommend this book about race
It’s abit the U.K. rather than the US and is very enlightening.
Actually what she is describing is exactely what has been happening on this thread.

The idea of a spa where black women can choose to go - that doesn't bother me, not because I think it's right to distinguish on skin colour, but because I can see why society (esp in the US) would make some black women want to avail themselves of that sort of space.

Andrea X's personal comments do bother me:

www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/12/costa-rican-retreat-offers-women-color-vacation-wh/

"White people should just stay home and hang out with other white people; you've done enough damage" - er - no. (What kind of conversation is she going to be promoting at this wellness spa, one wonders?!)

If the article is right, she's put in $100,000 with an investor; be interesting to see if she can open a spa on that budget in Costa Rica?

Married3Children

Your logic is flawed.

Because of historical inequalities, black people in the US are seen by some people as being more likely to be criminals etc. This is a subconscious bias and is not just confined to white people.

Studies have shown that some black people in the US also have the same subconscious biases towards other black people.

Historically Irish Americans were up until very recently seen in the same light. They were severely discriminated against and suffered as a group because of it. They are white.

Blaming all white people and being actively prejudiced towards them for inequalities within US society is no different from blaming all black people for gun crime, or all Muslims for terrorism.

Expressing you have a problem with inequality based on historical prejudice = absolutely fine

Expressing you have a problem with white people = racist

Actually it just says a retreat, so what will it offer? Is that more lessons/thought groups/meditation than it is massages and swimming pools? I've never been to a retreat!

There’s an interesting discussion about Why I No Longer Talk to White People about Race on this edition of A Good Read.

Thank you @Rebeccaslicker that's the part I find incredibly offensive and disturbing...

That a white person cant possibly add any value to ones life if you're a black woman and you need to "escape" white people altogether for a better life.

She says every time she speaks to a white person she picks up on micro aggression and passive aggression, she has nothing to say to a white person, and white people should hang out with other white people whilst black people should create black only spaces in America.

Why can't I hang out with black women? Why can't they hang out with me? Her personal views are clearly that nothing good comes from mixing with people who don't live your skin colour

I don't want a white only space... I don't need it. If black only space is needed that's ok by me, and with education on why even better however the idea blacks with blacks and whites with whites being a better way of life... I find that repulsive

I think there are some very hard questions and answers about why she feels that way.

But segregation isn't the answer - and that's what she's really pushing, even though the women who go to stay there are only looking for a temporary respite/holiday/learning session.

As I said, I wonder how would she cope with someone who is half black and half white? Would she bar them from the retreat? Or would she expect them to deny their white heritage?

@ifnot. Think more. The reason why most UK companies are run by white men is (a) because most people in the Uk are white aNd (b) more men compete to get to those positions than others do and (c) when the competition start to get those positions the field was almost entirely white males. Now it isn't and those currently running the race are a very different field. Just look at new MPs, doctors, lawyers and so many other professions. The racial and gender mix is completely different. This shows racism isn't a real thing in the oppressive way that so many seem to promote it as being. If it is it's pretty fucking ineffective racism as it hasn't stopped so many talented people getting to the top, and in the case of Keith Vaz pretty awful untalented and smarmy people getting there and staying there.

More black people get stopped by police? Well the mayor reduced stop and search and ensured it was racially unbiased and the knife crime rate shot right up. Either (a) more blacks commit knife crime or (b) a purely unrelated surge in knife varying took place. Well we can ignore (b) as stop and search reduced knife crime before Kahn got in. Stopping black youths more often than whites is reasonable as blacks are more likely to carry knives. How often do Koreans and Chinese get stopped? Hardly ever as the chances of finding an offensive weapon or drugs are close to zero (but not zero).

Back to capitalism. The market is ruthless. If there are better black businessmen out there who can do something better for less money then the market puts business there way as no-one can afford to give money away.

Back to racism. White people can be discriminated against. Local market traders charge me more for the same thing than they do a Bangladeshi friend. No prices on anything anywhere and trading standards don't want to know despite the clear breaking of the law. Yeah. I have all the power there....

Much easier to blame someone else than it is to take personal responsibility for outcomes.

The idea of someone's personal ideology being quite so negative towards race at the centre of a "healing" movement scares me.

Is this self segregation not what Richard spencer wants also? A place ONLY for white people.

It's very easy to see he's a stupid dangerous man, his colour makes it even easier to say this is dangerous and stupid idealogy.

I feel segregation based on colour a dangerous idea to aspire and hope for regardless who is saying it

if she did say white people shouldn't have passports, in a historical context she has a point

The term 'slave' originated from the word Slav, as it was white Slavonic natives who were captured and forced into servitude by conquesting Muslims in the 9th century. From a historical point of view, should we take their passports too?

How about we revoke the passports of all Scandinavians? In a historical context, their Viking ancestor conquered lands and amassed wealth via rape and pillaging.

In a 'historical context' every race is guilty of the subjugation of another.

Oh and this spa owner is so oppressed she has $100,000 and the freedom to set up a black women only spa. 'Cos racism.

Bullshit. She is freer than almost anyone on the planet and yet she pisses on that freedom with her divisive and hatred filled racial loaded views. However I for one think she is free to speak like this as freedom of speech and association is critical for a functional society.

Hang on a minute though - if young black men commit more knife crime, WHY do they do that?

because society in the U.K. offers them less choices than it does white middle class boys, maybe?!

Great source... Fox News.

Costa Rica is not Puerto Rico so money should stretch 😊.

I imagine she will be discussing blackness... things that affect black women... how lovely it is to be a black woman etc.

I'd like to think things like "how black features aren't acceptable until they're on a white woman" the kardashians come to mind... lip fillers big butts etc.

How in a white wash world where everything is ascribed to a white standard its good to love and appreciate your blackness.

They're probably going to discuss cosmetics for black women... skin care products designed for the black woman... make up etc. Which unless your black you have no idea he difficulties involved in finding the right match... as hardly any is created with black women in mind!

I imagine discussions about engaging other black women in the communities... probably discussions about supporting black businesses etc.

I can't understand why you would feel offended by this... there are after-all a lot of events where black women aren't welcomed. There are events where black women don't go because there is hardly anything of interest or benefit to a black woman.... most events dot really cater for black women on the surface it seems inclusive, but it's not.

It's discriminatory, not racist. But what place of this nature would not be considered discriminatory? Any place the excludes something or someone has elements of discrimination... all men's groups all women's groups.

Perhaps you should get some sleep... this reminds me of the person who posted about how racist sandals resorts adverts are... a resort in the Caribbean.

Shock horror black women would like a space for themselves... not everyone wants to share a space with someone who has no shared lives experiences with them...

Shock horror black woman excludes whites... you would think this kind of thing only happens in some parallel universe... but maybe OP you would like to look around your neck of the woods, I'm sure you will see the opposite whites excluding blacks is what is happening... albeit not like in the past, but it's happening... but I assume you aren't black so you think all is hunky dory!

Hmm.. in the grand scheme of making all people equal, it's not ideal to create more divisions. But I think it's more of a shame that black women feel the need for a safe space at all.

I think most people would agree there is still endemic racism, discrimination and low-level abuse suffered by many black people (especially in the US). Therefore it must be so nice not to have to worry about that pressure for a few days.

The founders views re: White people not being allowed passports are very unhelpful, and (I think) racist, but that's no reason not to allow this safe space for others.

Yeah @Beansonapost you may want to actually watch her interview before assuming that's what the offence is over.

Or the thread for that matter.

NotASingleFuck

Please don't point out inconvenient facts and arguments. It's poor form. The poor mugs who've been sucked into this insane, cultist bubble will be sorely aggravated. And we wouldn't want to hurt their feelings.

because society in the U.K. offers them less choices than it does white middle class boys, maybe?!

Doesn't offer them fewer choices than working class white boys, however. The lowest of the low in terms of life prospects.

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths some white people go to try to invalidate the experiences of people of colour. Only recently there was a white man on here who clearly forgot his posting history, claiming to be a Ugandan feminist nearly Olympic athlete who never experienced racism and sexism. Literally just made it up to discredit the experiences of others from his position of privilege.
This thread is similar, people offering up examples of individual experiences that ‘prove’ racism works both ways. People can be prejudice and nasty whatever their ethnicity and yes, often against white people. But the difference is, white people can escape it. You haven’t got an entire fucking system of power preventing you from doing so.
Stop being so offended when a black women just wants to retreat from those systems. So what if she doesn’t wanna be your mate. Plenty of women on here would retreat away from men and feel threatened by every single one of them, good or bad, if she had been raped and nobody would blame her. Yet when a black woman who has had a lifetime of shit from white people just wants to retreat, that’s not ok?

Where am I excusing abuse of children SallyArmy? Are you feeling alright?!
EltonJohn
I don't want to go somewhere I'm not wanted! There are thousands of spas in the world!
Puzzled
If it was a facetious comment regarding colonialism,then I can kind of understand it.

Basically people don't like not to be liked but nothing about this spa is affecting your human rights.

@chipvinegar I don't need to.

I never said I agreed with what she said.

I understand what she is doing and why... I am black I would pay my money to go there.

You on the other hand are looking for something to be offended by.

My friend lives in New York works for a major bank... and she sits opposite a person who wears a red "make America great again" hat around the office and he sits it on his desk in her full view... I think she would appreciate a retreat for black women.