To find this offensive? No whites allowed

[chipvinegar]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2018/02/12/wellness-retreat-in-costa-rica-that-bans-white-people-sparks-controversy.amp.html

I don't live an America, and I have no experience of racism in America, I somewhat understand the desire to have a "safe space" or a space to hold conversation around the issues, however the lady running it "eliminated all white people from her personal life" doesn't think white people should own passports etc

That's a lot of negativity for a "healing" retreat

The empowerment part... yeah, but the self segregation? Travelling backwards rather than forwards somewhat surely?!

How do you call the fact that we are all influenced by our education and culture, that our culture give white people a privilege that others dint, and this culture will always influence our actions, even if it’s on subconscious level then??

The fact that it’s feels like the words ‘privilege blindness’ is an insult, it is all a fact that when you are living in a certain environment, you take a lot of things for granted. Incl the fact you have advantages others don’t.

in the sociological sense 'privilege' applies only to people on average, and in the aggregate. It is not an individual or personal thing, nor a matter of keeping score. This means that the word can be counterproductive in debate, when used to focus on the personal characteristics of an opponent. Accusing an opponent of coming from a place of 'privilege' or being subject to 'privilege blindness' is rightly perceived as a personal attack.

It's also situational and contextual imo (I'm not a sociologist).

The power structure in a historically black college (and I have nothing against politically hbos, btw) might not be the same as the structure in a... primarily white fraternity.

"that's the problem!"

I suspect that when white people stop doing it, then black people will not try to do it.

PancakeInMaBelly

I DONT GIVE A FUCK

So you don't want to discuss anything you disagree with?

^So my post isnt to them
Its to the other women and to POC who know what I meant when I used the word privilidged^

How on earth do you ever expect to win anybody over to you way of thinking?

*arried3Children Tue 13-Feb-18 12:55:22
*flouriad
I was quoting another poster.
IMO the word retreat there should be understood not as a spa/retreat holiday but as a retreat like an army retreating from the attack of the other army.
It’s not been able to cope with the constant onslaught of attacks (comments, fear for yourself etc...) so mouche so that you give up and go and hide.

What's imo ... upsetting (concerning?) are her other statements. Not the existence of the spa.

I don't have anything against a spa like that.

Various groups have their own "exclusive" spaces (be that sex based, on religion, sexual orientation etc...).

Married3Children

How do you call the fact that we are all influenced by our education and culture, that our culture give white people a privilege that others dint, and this culture will always influence our actions, even if it’s on subconscious level then??

I agree to an extent, but surely that's the point. The principle of 'privilege' applies to a group, on aggregate. Notr to individuals.

You can't point at a white person and say "you by dint of being white have more privilege than I do", because it may well not be true.

Does anyone know whether countries that aren't majority white have similar discussions/issues? E.g. does Egypt try to ensure that any white residents are treated the same way as black residents, for example, or do white people in Thailand complain that they aren't treated the same way as Thai people?

This thread makes a clear case for black women who feel that they need to fuck the fuck off to the middle of the jungle to get away from people who think they know more about what black women do or don't need than black women do!

How on earth do you ever expect to win anybody over to you way of thinking?
oh look, the type of white man that will jump on these threads is not open to learning so why break our hearts laying out experiences and feelings bare for them to just shout them down??
Christ almighty I'm not even black and I'M exhausted of this "be NICE to the racists and TEACH them" bullshit.

I don’t think it’s ok to say people of a particular skin colour can or can’t have access to somewhere.

PancakeInMaBelly

the type of white man that will jump on these threads is not open to learning

I don't think that's true.

The only person who doesn't sound like they are open to learning is you.

I used to work in a school which had a majority of black students (about 70%).
At lunchtime a group of black girls said a particular room was for black kids only and turned away white kids. We treated this as racism. If we had allowed it then we would also have to have been open to a White kids room only. Or an Asian kids room. It’s just not OK. Horrible message to send out.

PancakeInMaBelly

This thread makes a clear case for black women who feel that they need to fuck the fuck off to the middle of the jungle to get away from people who think they know more about what black women do or don't need than black women do

When has anyone said they know what black women need?

It's also hugely counterproductive in terms of race relations. Study after study has shown that the more societies are segregated, the more racist they become. Germany was less than 1% Jewish pre holocaust and racist attitudes in the U.K. are much more likely to be found in areas with very low numbers of ethnic minorities. People fear the unknown.

If we start self segregating we run a real risk of creating a tinderbox that the far right would find very easy to ignite.

Btw, if I search it in German: 0 trans news
If I search this or similar terms in Italian: 0 trans news
Same for Swedish, Spanish and French, btw.

This seems to be more of an anglosphere phenomenon.

wrong thread.

The only person who doesn't sound like they are open to learning is you

Well it gets exhausting being TOLD that your experiences arent accurate by people who experience things differently to you
How much do you really have to learn from being told over and over that your experiences arent valid?I

This is why theres a need for this retreat, So that Black Women can focus on THEMSELVES rather than sit nicely and listen to how white people THINK they should feel in the guise of "learning"

When has anyone said they know what black women need?

Yes. The hat in the bank scenario
"she just sits near someone who voted differently, that's nothing to be upset about, just BEING there proves she's not experiencing racism"

PancakeInMaBelly

Well it gets exhausting being TOLD that your experiences arent accurate by people who experience things differently to you. How much do you really have to learn from being told over and over that your experiences arent valid?

What experiences are you talking about? How are your experiences apparently the definitive on this issue?

Christ almighty I'm not even black

Especially as you aren't black. If you want to play the 'lived experience' game then you have no more right to comment than any of us.

I think we all have something to say on this, and your attempts to shut down those who disagree with you on the grounds that 'they don't know' is frankly silly, given that neither do you.

to get away from people who think they know more about what black women do or don't need than black women do

I think that statement is a bit racist in itself. There are hundreds of millions of black women. They're not a homogenous lump, they don't all have the same needs. If you're a black single mother bringing up children in a council flat in South London you're probably going to have more in common with your white next door neighbour than a black barrister whose father is a banker and went to private school. It's very reductive treating people as a colour first and foremost rather than a person.

This is why theres a need for this retreat, So that Black Women can focus on THEMSELVES rather than sit nicely and listen to how white people THINK

Well if you were looking at this in U.K. law, she would have to prove that there was a cultural need which necessitated segregation. If as part of her service there are group discussions or similar it would be okay. But it sounds like she is just offering treatments. So that's not okay.

I don't think it's even treatments necessarily - it's just described as a retreat. That could mean anything from yoga to lectures really!

It's a shame there aren't better sources on this than the daily fail and breitfart.

No there is group discussion, it's a healing retreat developed around the racism black women experience.

Hence why it's not relevant to a white woman.

However the promotion that women should go back from the retreat and set up self segregated spaces and white people need to simply leave black people alone and keep to their own... that scares me hugely

What experiences are you talking about? How are your experiences apparently the definitive on this issue?
They're not. I just don't disbelieve the people running or attending this if they think they need this

Just as I don't disbelieve the bank lady if she feels there is an uncomfortably racist undertone in what's happening at her work.

www.womenofcolorhealingretreats.com/about.html

Well if you were looking at this in U.K
UK law doesn't necessarily always equate with moral/ethical good standard