To find this offensive? No whites allowed

[chipvinegar]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2018/02/12/wellness-retreat-in-costa-rica-that-bans-white-people-sparks-controversy.amp.html

I don't live an America, and I have no experience of racism in America, I somewhat understand the desire to have a "safe space" or a space to hold conversation around the issues, however the lady running it "eliminated all white people from her personal life" doesn't think white people should own passports etc

That's a lot of negativity for a "healing" retreat

The empowerment part... yeah, but the self segregation? Travelling backwards rather than forwards somewhat surely?!

Having an event for woc is fine in my book

Promoting/inciting that white people are bad... not ok, especially via a "healing" event

Having an event for women only, again fine in my book. If it was an event that was inciting hatred of men however in the name of healing... I'd have a problem.

There's a large difference between empowerment and being riled up against a group of people

Mustn't upset them after all.

Who?

There's a big difference between being attacked, shouted at or abused for the colour of your skin and having a retreat set up to escape from that very thing. One is harmful, the other is not. One is racism, the other is not.
Her comments about passports are just ignorant, I feel sorry for her that she thinks all white people are like the ones she's had personal experience of. That's sad and it looks like there's no chance that will change. But that's not harming anyone. If she's talking about white racist American republicans like Trump, then she has point, I don't want them outside the USA either.

being riled up against a group of people

Have you seen radical feminist groups arguing against transwomen.......

I prefer to say and wite moslems

I just thought you might not appreciate being lumped in with illiterate Britain First idiots, but if you're fine with that, go right ahead.

Wow, I never knew there was such a distinction between Muslim and Moslem - I just thought it was a spelling/transliteration thing, like Koran or Qu'ran:

www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/01/12/why-j-k-rowling-is-so-incensed-about-rupert-murdochs-tweet-about-moslems/?utm_term=.3356f2bf5da8

Glad I've learned that today. I'd never want to be on the same side as Rupert Murdoch, even unwittingly!!

www.mohammedamin.com/Community_issues/Koran-or-Quran.html

Exactly Patriachy and it's become the standard explanation trotted out before saying something really racist about white people along the lines of 'some of my best friends are black but...'.

The worst achieving children in our schools are working class boys. We had an epidemic of sex crimes being committed against working class girls, and the authorities refused to act. I don't know how anybody can claim that 'the system' gives an advantage to working class white people with a straight face.

In reality 'the system' is biased in favour of those with money and connections. Which is part of the reason these sort of explanations are so beloved of white, middle class people. Because if they have an advantage which other people give to them because they are white they can't do anything about that, they can't change colour. But if people start questioning the leg up theirs parents money and connections brought them then questions might be asked and they'd be at risk of losing them. Much better to pretend all white people are privileged so no awkward questions get asked.

There are many support groups for certain groups in our society that exclude others

Would I turn up at a group that supports women from Somalia or Afghanistan no why would I I am not missing out on anything and why would they need my presence there

And can’t remember who mentioned that many seem to be suffering from white privilege guilt well considering my dad isn’t white and have witnessed racisim directed at him when I was very young no it isn’t something I suffer from

And I am not talking about isolated incidences of name calling etc which of course is always wrong being white in this country or in the states you are not judged by society. We only need to look at our great NHS or social services how many black people working within and how many have senior roles, how many white men are stopped by police and how many black men are, how many times have I been told I am difficult or have a chip on my shoulder compared to black women, how many times I get the look of well what do you expect and so on

Incidentally, I think there are times when black only spaces are fine. But generally only when it's clear that the presence of white people would not be conducive to the purpose (e.g. a group mentoring BAME people who want to go into science). But getting a massage? No.

There's a big difference between being attacked, shouted at or abused for the colour of your skin and having a retreat set up to escape from that very thing. One is harmful, the other is not. One is racism, the other is not.
This. ^^
If I get abuse for being white from British Asian lads -that's racism.
If a load of British Asian people want to set up a retreat just for themselves and not allow white people-not racism.

The first affects me (white person) , the second does not.

I think spas just for black women are an excellent idea.
I don't know about the passport comments because I haven't read them in Vice, and I'm dubious about second hand reporting by Fox News!
Although, if she did say white people shouldn't have passports, in a historical context she has a point...and also, I'm not exactly crying myself to sleep over a comment that was probably made as a joke. It's like if a woman said men shouldn't be allowed to vote or something. Equally daft and not genuinely hurting anyone. Are we really that delicate and sensitive?
I agree that not ALL white people have power. Obviously. But the world's richest economies are almost entirely run by white men. The power is so NOT in the hands of black women! That's just a fact, however many people go "uh..Condeleezza Rice.."

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/nov/10/white-angry-and-american-review-an-unflinching-look-at-us-despair-and-racial-hatred

I'd have started a thread about this too... I find it terrifying. I watched this documentary in awe that he had the self restraint not to knock Richard Spencer out. Just happened to be I saw the story I posted in the news last night

The idea of creating countries ONLY for skin colour of one type, because the other type of skin is inherently UNSAFE regardless of individual personality is quite disturbing (and to me offensive)

I think America is a lot more strained than we are here though which is perhaps why it's easier to sit back and debate/ wonder

Have you seen radical feminist groups arguing against transwomen.......

Yes we are arguing to keep safe spaces for women, that doesn’t include men who self id as women by putting on make up, heels and a dress

Watch her video... she makes no apologies and it doesn't appear to be second hand reporting distortion of her views. I expected it to be myself tbh and was shocked when I heard her speak.

The idea that a person is BAD simply down to skin colour... that is the offensive part (to me anyway) To be clear.

We had an epidemic of sex crimes being committed against working class girls, and the authorities refused to act.
And a lot of that was exactly because of the "kind" of girls they were. They were seen as chavvy sluts, not children who needed protecting.
That's not only the authorities trying not be be seen as racist, it's also very much about the way young girls from poorer backgrounds (of all races) are viewed.
So yes, it was a scandal of inertia due to trying not to offend the Muslim community, but equally it was a scandal that showed up the utter contempt that exists toward girls from troubled and lower class backgrounds. Double edged sword.
Just saying in the interests of clarity.

I was brought spelling it 'moslem'. That spelling used to be the normal way to spell it.

Just because some of you deem it racist to spell it that way (islam is NOT a 'race' of people :) ) means diddly squat.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed

Thats my point. These groups do exist for the purpose of excluding others, often with good reason. If women want to exclude transwomen then I dont see the problem of excluding white women from a black space.

The idea that a person is BAD simply down to skin colour... that is the offensive part (to me anyway) To be clear.

All men are excluded from womens spaces simply down to be a man. Is that offensive?

Lol at the people at the beginning of the thread saying minorities can't be racist. Amazing the amount of people trapped in the US blogosphere bubble who just take their word as gospel over common sense and logic.

Ifnot

So how many 'white' men and non moslems were convicted of those crimes of a very vulnerable section of our society.

Can't quite believe that you are making up excuses for it.

Shame on you.

How many women only spaces are there ?

Changing rooms, toilets and a few clubs why do men need to come into these spaces and why do they want to

I was brought spelling it 'moslem'. That spelling used to be the normal way to spell it.

Still is in some countries / regions.

"Changing rooms, toilets and a few clubs why do men need to come into these spaces and why do they want to"

For the same reason people are vexed at this black retreat. Because they are being excluded and the people going dont want them there. My point is if its acceptable (and I think it is) for women to exclude men then it is also acceptable for black people to exclude white people for their spaces. Why this is even a story confuses me. Why women are vexed by it also confuses me.

All men are excluded from womens spaces simply down to be a man. Is that offensive?

No. Because they are not excluded for being bad. Merely for not being women and thus unable to appreciate the purpose in the event.

I don't think you'd find any white woman complaining that they can't attend this event. It's not appropriate to them... the part being complained about is the idea that white people are BAD. Which is clearly the view of the organiser (not the participants)

"and thus unable to appreciate the purpose in the event."

Which is an argument put forward for black only spaces.

"the part being complained about is the idea that white people are BAD. "

And I thought Not All Men was an unreasonable response when discussing sexism etc.

Its not quite same reason though

Like I said before would I turn up at a woman’s Somali Support group no and if I did and was told well actually this group is for Somali women only we wish to discuss issues that impact us and don’t impact you.

For me to be offended would be pathetic why do I need to feel my presence is needed is it to tell them they are wrong

The first affects me (white person) , the second does not.

Yes it does. It means you cannot get a service there and is currently illegal under U.K. law. Would you be happy with 'whites only' salons and tell black people they should shut up because it didn't affect them.

And it IS illegal. The Labour Party were recently fined for charging white people more for their conference tickets. You can't discriminate on the basis of race unless it comes under certain exemptions. And salons don't.

Setting up things like this is hugely divisive.