To find this offensive? No whites allowed

[chipvinegar]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2018/02/12/wellness-retreat-in-costa-rica-that-bans-white-people-sparks-controversy.amp.html

I don't live an America, and I have no experience of racism in America, I somewhat understand the desire to have a "safe space" or a space to hold conversation around the issues, however the lady running it "eliminated all white people from her personal life" doesn't think white people should own passports etc

That's a lot of negativity for a "healing" retreat

The empowerment part... yeah, but the self segregation? Travelling backwards rather than forwards somewhat surely?!

For the person highlighting how Barbados has benefitted from tourism... I think you should do further research.

The Barbados economy is one of the best in the region because their dollar is pegged against the USD at 2:1.

As for the passport discussion: ask yourselves this:

How many countries on this planet with a white majority is given a third world label?

And how many people from these "third world" countries have the rights/freedom of movement as white people?

I mean US citizens can travel to some Caribbean countries using their driving license... Do any of you on this thread have any idea how many hoops people have to jump through just to get a visa?!

-how many of you have to prove you own an asset (land or house) before applying for a visa?
-how many of you have to show proof of employment and the intention to return to your home country?
-how many of you have had to provide utility bills etc when applying for a visa?

• how many of you once obtaining that visa have had the embarrassment of being pulled up at border control... segregated... questioned and searched repeatedly... regardless of what your visa says...

I'd recommend the documentary "life and debt".

"I think it is interesting how badly some white people react to discovering they are not always welcome/wanted around POC."

Black people have every reason to feel uncomfortable with white people in their space, and I honestly don't think it would do us white folk much harm to see how the shoe feels on the other foot for once.

Black people have every reason to feel uncomfortable with white people in their space, and I honestly don't think it would do us white folk much harm to see how the shoe feels on the other foot for once.

I fucked up my copy and paste...

What I was going to say was. That statement reminds me of a teacher we had, who was white, who wanted all the white girls in my class (girls school) to go around and apologise to all the black girls for slavery. I had no involvement in slavery and neither did my family so why was it insisted that I do that? I grew up around people of all different colours and cultures and have no issue with them and they have no issue with me, so why all the hate? Direct it at those that can do something. I find it disgusting that I can be accused of racism but a black person with more power than me is not. Slavery was awful and it’s heartbreaking to read up on it but to continue hating ALL white people because of the past is madness.

That's a really good and interesting way of thinking about it, GardenGeek. Nothing really changes until the people in control want it to change. Voices of resistance help to create awareness and draw attention to the need for change, but it's up to the powers who be, so to speak. So, essential that they are party to the discussion.

Back to the provocateurs in questionMs X with her views and Fox News trying to prove their point that the US is being threatened by racial minoritiesit's clear that the US isn't ready for change, having elected the abomination as president. He's still running the show. We got a glimpse of "post-race" America with Barack Obama and the people turned back and said they weren't ready with their votes. I can understand why someone might want to run away and hide and banish the people she thinks are the problem, but it's immature and won't actually change anything.

*-how many of you have to prove you own an asset (land or house) before applying for a visa?
-how many of you have to show proof of employment and the intention to return to your home country?
-how many of you have had to provide utility bills etc when applying for a visa?

• how many of you once obtaining that visa have had the embarrassment of being pulled up at border control... segregated... questioned and searched repeatedly... regardless of what your visa says*

As a white Brit, then everything on that list would apply to me if I wanted to visit the US for more than 12 weeks. And trying to get a job and actually live there would be extremely difficult for me.

@Radicalrooster how many people you know take a 12 week vacation...
These are people doing the bog standard 2 weeks R&R. misses your point

Clearly if you intend to spend 12 weeks in a country they would require these things. It's not just the US by the way... Britain is the same... Australia... France and several other European countries... there are very few countries that are allowed visa free travel from so Called third world countries. You are heavily scrutinised and you know what is the shittiest bit you plan your vacation arrive in the country and get sent back to where you're coming from... so all that money wasted! And this happens far more frequently than is reported.

The US is notorious for this!

It's difficult for anyone from a country to up sticks and find a job easily in a foreign country.... unless you are in a country with certain agreements like the EU.... it not easy for anyone to get a job be they black white pink purple or brown. again misses point.

& all that before youre subjected to an internal exam at the airport for no reason other than profiling!

How many countries on this planet with a white majority is given a third world label?

None, because the Third World is made up of former European empires.

But if you ask for examples of majority white countries where the average standard of living is low: Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Bosnia - Herzegovina and Albania would all count. They all have lower GDP than South Africa, for example, and average living standards in SA are pretty damn low.

If you included countries where most people had a white skin, it would be a longer list. "White" is assumed to mean people from ex-colonial societies, and no doubt exploitation explains some of their wealth. However, this glosses over the fact that most European countries had no empires at all, and yet are still comparatively rich (In fact, no poorer than those that did). The reason is better technology even in the period before colonisation (something the countries I listed above have never shared).

there are very few countries that are allowed visa free travel from so Called third world countries. You are heavily scrutinised

This is because the residents of those countries are more likely to overstay their visas and go to ground. I don't see anything racist about it. Fwiw my parents in law have to go through the same process if they want to visit me.

@GardenGeek I feel much the same as you. Human beings are far too complicated (ok, selfish, flawed, short-sighted etc) to do our most basic job, which is to care for the planet and each other properly. We (the masses) are failing at it, leaving our scientists, engineers, conservationists to get on with it. But the learned sector is now despised. The age of the democratisation of power has begun and I don't believe it will be a good thing (is that your social contagion?). No valour for the brains. Empress Satya X with no clothes and Fox News and the Daily Mail rule the day. Hooray.

. . . I only joined in for a bit of a break from the children. Love half term. . . The OP only asked if the topic was offensive. And yes, it is. It's offended a whole lot of people. Not me though. I'm not really into yoga !

I do like responsible tourism, though. Unfortunately, the part of the world I come from and where I hope to spend my productive mid-life to retirement farming and working needs tourism in order to survive. but it's a tricky economy which sees investment away from the islands, wealth growing in foreign bank accounts, and a proliferation of very low-skilled jobs. And yes, the expectation that you will be greeted with sunshine and people to wait on you in tuxedos at the beach. If anyone wants a read of what Caribbean tourism has wrought from a black Caribbean woman's point of view, have a read of Jamaica Kincaid's A Small Place. But beware! It's controversial. And you might be offended. But hey, this is life.

I would really recommend to read THIS BOOK ON RACISM IN THE UK
It will open the eyes if many of you about the state of racism here.
(Clue it’s really NOT rosy) As well as how it affects every aspect of the life of black people in the U.K.

I think everyone should read it. It teaches a lot about the history of black peole in the U.K., the recent history of the 1960 and 1970s and the even more recent one of the 2000~2010.
I think it’s essential because THIS is what is feeding our attitudes, reactions and subconscious judgements. And wo knowing about it, there is no way we can actually really SEE what is going on. Or that we (as white people) are still heavily influenced by our colonial past.

A few years ago, I wouldnt have understood Quack’s teacher exercise. After all, none of us were there right?
And it would be right if it wasn’t for the fact that the U.K. is where it is now THANKS to slavery. We wouldn’t have the wealth we have now wo it.
It would t be right if slavery didn’t have some lasting effect in how we see black people. How we judge them. How we treat them. But unfortunately, it has.

Beansonapost

I still need a visa for two week visit to the US you Muppet. And I've been grilled plenty of times at US immigration. Same in Australia.

I also need a visa for pretty much every African and Middle Eastern country I visit. The shit I have to go through trying to get into Kenya is unreal.

I think you're getting a very very tiny taste of what it's like to be non-white.

Imagine feeling like that daily.

@Toadinthehole how many brits overstay their welcome in countries?

It's not better "technology"... it's deliberate trade deals that have derailed and deprived these economies. If you are a part of the European landscape you benefit from these deals... you benefit from the monies gained. Most third world countries trade in commodities... they are dependent on market value and price... when the WTO introduced free trading and scrapped preferential trade deals a great deal of these economies suffered! Look at Britain for example... and say the importation of bananas... it was cheaper and easier to buy bananas from Brazil etc because after free trade than to buy from jamaica like in the past... not just because the Jamaicans shunned fair trade etc. But the cost of production and cost of energy became too much and so bananas became too expensive, without a preferential agreement you were then free to buy the cheapest available ( nothing wrong with that) but at the same time these struggling economies who weren't making money from exports were expected to start importing goods once again cheaper than local produce... and what happens people stop buying local because it's too expensive and they need their money to stretch, and now a vicious cycle ensues of mounting debt... because you must borrow money from the IMF to keep the economy a float... paying debts... public sector wages etc... all while not making enough from what you export to cover your expenses... and you end up in billions of dollars worth of debt and each citizen being born owing money they have never seen, used or benefitted from. And what is the IMF and why was it set up post war... hmmmm 😐. As I recommended up thread watch the documentary "life and debt"... it's atrocious how "first world" countries sacrifice smaller economies for their benefit... then go back to "help" via charities and investments and philanthropy... which again only suits them because they get to meddle without the consequences! It's disgusting.
Prime example the Red Cross and the Haitian earthquake...

@kateemo excellent book!
But I think responsible tourism is a farce... it's what we tell ourselves to feel better. I'm from the Caribbean and almost all the coastline is resorts... local people are losing access to their own beaches... most of the hotels waste is not proper disposed of ala in the sea... it's a nasty cycle that mostly deprives local people... but I imagine the average tourist doesn't know and in any case would probably not like non guests from the resort using the beach... well that's what we are told... especially if you're black!

I thought any racism is unacceptable, and it should be, quite frankly I am finding some of the comments on here quite shocking and disturbing. Whatever way you dress it up or try and explaining it away, it is still racism, and should not be accepted. So its ok for POC to make racial statements towards white people, that's ok because they are oppressed and and should just suck it up. If you believe in that, than your on a slippery slope downwards. This thread has developed a very nasty undertone, I am going to report it.

@Ruthlessrooster maybe you should read your own government guidelines

|| www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/entry-requirements||

Pretty sure it says:

You’ll generally qualify to enter the USA using the VWP if your British passport:

describes your nationality as a ‘British Citizen’
is an ePassport with this internationally recognised symbol on the front cover

and you:

have received authorisation from the Electronic System for Travel Authorisation (ESTA)
haven’t been arrested for certain crimes, even if a criminal conviction didn’t result
aren’t a dual national of Iran, Iraq, Sudan or Syria
haven’t travelled to Libya, Iran, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Syria or Yemen since March 2011
can show that you have enough funds available on arrival to support yourself during your stay, even if you’re staying with family and friends

And this is something you can apply for up to 72 hrs before travel!

Do you have to jump through as many hoops with your British passport?! Clearly NOT! You don't have to apply months in advance or years! Spending all the money you have on the visa... then save for the flight do you? You just plan your trip and get necessary paperwork sorted etc and your off... how lovely!

Yeah the Kenyans and Middle East countries want to check me upon entry... try being the only black person on a flight to Amsterdam and the only one pulled off the flight, searched and escorted through schipol airport by 4 massive security guards to have your passport and visa checked! While all the other white passengers disembarked the plane and went on their merry way. I'm a tiny woman! People stared... I looked like I was guilty of something... I was going on business for my company then leaving 3 days later for China! This is called being black while travelling...

I totally Quack, tarring all white people with the same brush, and making them responsible for tge oppression and racism when they personally have nothing to do with it, is unhelpful and dangerous. It's like women saying ban all men, and stating hateful things about men becUse we are the oppressed race. It's not right and totally unacceptable, and takes no consideration of the lovely men out there who do not treat women badly and who are decent respectful men.

Just makes you look nasty and hateful.

Well then if it’s not seen as racist in the US and it’s important to have safe spaces, then Jim Crow was right to want to segregate schools based on skin colour? Where is it more important to have a safe place than our schools.

Beansonapost But I am not racist. I was never raised to be racist and I was born (and back living) in a predominantly white country. So why did I have to apologise to black girls for something I had no involvement in? If anything by making me apologise to people that have never been slaves, it slightly skewed my thinking and actually led to a couple of girls bullying the white girls for a while because they felt they were owed something. But apparently that is ok because white people have so much privilege. I’d like to see some of this privilege I supposedly have because I have experienced racism and I have been raped and told I’m just a white slut. Not racist though, apparently.

And yet I still don’t, and won’t tar every black person with the same brush. I also went on to have sexual partners who were black because like I said, I didn’t change my thinking to all black people are bad because of the bad few that I have met. I also know awful white men who have hurt me. I won’t say that all white men are bad either though.

Beansonapost

This is called being black while travelling...

In which case British and European airports would be crammed with thousands of security guards personally (or in multiples) escorting black passengers through security, and border/customs points acting as holding pens for hundreds of black passengers as they are interrogated at length as to their movements by the hundreds of (non-existent border guards).

And yet the reality is nothing like this. In any way, shape or form. Why were you hauled off that flight to Amsterdam and escorted by Security guards? Who knows. Why was I hauled out of the queue for passport control at Stansted and dragged into a side room and interrogated at length about by movements in Eastern Europe? Why was my car stopped at Portsmouth ferry port and my vehicle gone over with a fine tooth comb on the way out and back from a trip to France? Who knows.