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To find this offensive? No whites allowed

557 replies

chipvinegar · 12/02/2018 23:58

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2018/02/12/wellness-retreat-in-costa-rica-that-bans-white-people-sparks-controversy.amp.html

I don't live an America, and I have no experience of racism in America, I somewhat understand the desire to have a "safe space" or a space to hold conversation around the issues, however the lady running it "eliminated all white people from her personal life" doesn't think white people should own passports etc

That's a lot of negativity for a "healing" retreat

The empowerment part... yeah, but the self segregation? Travelling backwards rather than forwards somewhat surely?!

OP posts:
PancakeInMaBelly · 13/02/2018 18:21

Can you prove that disparity?

Prove that I have more freedom to cross the med than people who die in rafts trying to do so in the opposite direction?

youngnomore · 13/02/2018 18:22

Why is there even a discussion?
She’s racist. End of.

Rebeccaslicker · 13/02/2018 18:23

No. Proof that YOU could travel to Africa on your passport more easily than someone from Africa could travel to britain on theirs. Like with actual laws/stats on applications made/refused, that sort of thing.

You haven't answered any of the other questions people have put to you, so I doubt you'll answer this one, but there we go!

floriad · 13/02/2018 18:25

youngnomore

No, she can't be racist.

she's "just" prejudiced, pro-segregation and thinks that white people shouldn't have passports...

However, even this can be justified or seen as morally "right" by certain mumsnetters.

kateemo · 13/02/2018 18:52

1: Her name is Satya X - deliberate provocateur. I don't think Malcom X advocated yoga retreats as a form of resistance, but he was a very 'controversial' agitator in the black power movement.

2: You are hardly going to find anything about race relations in the USA reported in a 'fair and balanced' fashion on Fox News. Assume that it's meant to stir up a shitstorm, just as it did today on this thread.

Forget the sensationalism for a minute. Racism exists and it tears families and countries apart. It's meant to.

youngnomore · 13/02/2018 18:55

floraid- no. She’s racist.

youngnomore · 13/02/2018 18:57

Sorry that wasn’t for you floraid.

schoolhunter · 13/02/2018 19:08

I agree it would be exclusive/racist in the UK but this is not in the UK.

As 70% of the global population is black, there must be lots of retreats all over the world run exclusively for non-white people, and that doesn't really hurt anyone, but deliberate segregation divides a community and causes wars and poverty. It sounds like segregation is already there, else why mention 'white'?

PancakeInMaBelly · 13/02/2018 19:11

No. Proof that YOU could travel to Africa on your passport more easily than someone from Africa could travel to britain on theirs. Like with actual laws/stats on applications made/refused, that sort of thing.

Thats a whole flippin PhD right there so you know full well I cant

However, if you think its a reasonable ask then you could just provide proof to the contrary if you disagree that being white gives you more freedom and better luck at borders.

floriad · 13/02/2018 19:14

As 70% of the global population is black, there must be lots of retreats all over the world run exclusively for non-white people, and that doesn't really hurt anyone, but deliberate segregation divides a community and causes wars and poverty.

Yes, the existence of a "safe space" doesn't really hurt anyone, I absolutely agree.

(70% of the global population isn't black, btw.)

PatriarchyPersonified · 13/02/2018 19:18

PancakeInMaBelly

Have a look at this when you get the chance.

Might be useful if internet debates are going to be a regular thing for you.

www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/222/Shifting-of-the-Burden-of-Proof

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 13/02/2018 19:19

www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/powerful-passports-2018/ If only there was some handy way of looking at this issue like a chart.

ChipVinegar · 13/02/2018 19:21

@schoolhunter it's already been linked on this thread, there is a retreat in the UK (at least one) not open to white people.

That's not the problem though... the existence of a retreat for black women isnt imo anything concerning, controversial perhaps... needs a simple explanation of why it's not relevant for white people to be understood perhaps and not perceived as reverse racism, but I don't find the idea offensive in itself.

The everyone should stick to their own kind mentality and we'd all be better off... that's the problem. The promotion of segregation long term.

OP posts:
InionEile · 13/02/2018 19:24

Wow, this thread has really kicked off a storm...

I think the woman interviewed, Satya X, has prejudices driven by her lived experience. Her response to that as an average woman, is to use all her savings to invest in a wellness retreat center for women of colour and that retreat is held in a building that is owned by a white person (=power).

I can think of a certain rich white man who is prejudiced against black people. He thinks that majority black countries like Haiti, or countries in Africa are 'shitholes' and full of people with AIDS. He thinks Hispanic immigrants are rapists, criminals and gangsters. He thinks Muslims aren't really true Americans. His response to that...

...is to campaign to become President of the USA. And to get elected by playing into white people's race-based fears. And introduce racially motivated immigration controls to stop Muslims and people from 'shithole countries' coming to the USA.

That is the difference between racism of blacks against whites versus racism from whites against blacks. The racial prejudice of an average black woman does not translate into the power structure because she is a disadvantaged individual who lacks access to power. The racial prejudices of a rich, white man are much more dangerous because they translate into the power structure where they affect whether people of colour get hired for jobs, get charged with crimes, get shot by the police or get banned from entering the USA in the first place.

And, yes, Barack Obama was President for 8 years but he was mixed race, with a white mother (although Americans seem to ignore that fact) and I challenge anyone to find any racist policy he ever implemented, unless you count the tax on tanning beds... (which some crazy Fox News reporters do).

kateemo · 13/02/2018 19:42

Racism and racial prejudice are two different things. Satya X and her ideas can offend you or make you angry and want to argue with someone on the Internet. But she doesn't have the power to subjugate and marginalise you so that you are a defacto second-class citizen with fewer rights and privileges than are granted normally. I'm not saying she's a cool person. She probably has her reasons for doing and saying what she's doing and saying, just as we all do. I don't think she will be effective, but maybe she will offer a few weary souls some respite. Who knows. And who cares.

Fox News had a reason for publishing this. So they can continue their business as usual dividing and conquering anything progressive in America. You do that by shutting down debate and presenting your point of view as singular and incontrovertible, like shouting 'no' at the Internet and repeating yourself so that you think you are right and no one else can have something to say.

Justanotherlurker · 13/02/2018 19:47

But she doesn't have the power to subjugate and marginalise you so that you are a defacto second-class citizen with fewer rights and privileges than are granted normally.

Neither does your average Joe who shares Britain First stuff, but I guess you will use the academic term for racism.

When you have to use the re-defined academic term for racism then you should really re-evaluate your ideals, IMO and I am speaking as a WOC

Rebeccaslicker · 13/02/2018 19:50

Basically pancake, you can't answer a single thing raised by your own statements, can you?

Not what the movement of people of other races has done; not what excluding whites has done; not why you have it so much easier... It's like a dead sheep trying to debate!

TovaGoldCoin · 13/02/2018 19:54

It's a healing retreat for women of colour, to help disconnect from the pain of racism. Hardly racist. If yiu think this is racist, yiu need educating.

Rebeccaslicker · 13/02/2018 19:56

Tova, have you read the thread?

Literally nobody has said the retreat is racist.

It's the ancillary comments made by the proprietor about white people that are divisive and promoting segregation!

youngnomore · 13/02/2018 19:57

Tova- I’m a woman of colour. I’m white. I’ve experienced racism. Can I attend ?

Charismam · 13/02/2018 19:57

I am not in the slightest bit offended by that. I just see it as not relevant to me.

kateemo · 13/02/2018 19:59

Average Joe sharing Britain First stuff enjoys the privilege of, presumably, being white. Yes, it's an academic term I was using. I was an academic once. How does Satya X's yoga retreat serve to actually marginalise or disenfranchise anyone? It can offend, upset, exclude. It can not make sense to someone. That's all valid.

I'm also a woman of colour. And an American. And I was born in the Caribbean. So what? It doesn't matter who I am.

And being told to re-evaluate my ideals. That's being personal. This is a nice, friendly Internet debate. Thanks for your opinion.

QuackPorridgeBacon · 13/02/2018 20:02

Wow. This thread has turned shocking. Having a black person only retreat is great and I have no issue with that. Her reasoning behind it is quite scary and it seems she would prefer a time where black and white people were separated. I’m guessing then that all the black people should move out of the “white” countries and be better off then, according to her. Some of those insisting that she cannot ever be racist as she has no power (she has more than me, benefits mum with a disabled child and a partner who is also at home) but if I said the same as her only changing the colour of the people mentioned, I would certainly be racist? Have I got that right?

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 13/02/2018 20:06

NRTFT but to me this is no different to creating a women-only space with no men allowed, and the only relevant voices in this are those from POC. Black people have every reason to feel uncomfortable with white people in their space, and I honestly don't think it would do us white folk much harm to see how the shoe feels on the other foot for once.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 13/02/2018 20:07

And rather than moan about reverse racism, perhaps ask what we're doing that makes POC so uncomfortable and perhaps work to change that. Just a thought.

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