To find this offensive? No whites allowed

[chipvinegar]

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/2018/02/12/wellness-retreat-in-costa-rica-that-bans-white-people-sparks-controversy.amp.html

I don't live an America, and I have no experience of racism in America, I somewhat understand the desire to have a "safe space" or a space to hold conversation around the issues, however the lady running it "eliminated all white people from her personal life" doesn't think white people should own passports etc

That's a lot of negativity for a "healing" retreat

The empowerment part... yeah, but the self segregation? Travelling backwards rather than forwards somewhat surely?!

My dad a Irish republican used to have major issues flying monthly between Dublin & London. It was assumed he was a terrorist & was stopped each time. Is that white privilege?

The tourism point is a very complicated one in both the history and the long term. Nobody said it isn't.

But in the short term, if you're just going to do as pancake and the retreat owner suggest and restrict white travel, what are you going to tell the 26,000 people or so who work in the industry? The people who work in hotels; the restaurant staff; the young man who has borrowed money to buy a jet ski that he uses to take tourists up and down the coast? How are you going to account for the drop in the economy - estimated at about 40%? Do you just expect people to suck it up and be glad that it means no more white people?

Perhaps some of them will. But a lot of them will simply want a new job, and those won't be created overnight, even if you did then go on to market the island successfully as a black only resort (and that's a big if!).

And what do you propose to do with all the villas and apartments that are owned by white people? Would you expect the government to buy them out (with what, given that you've just reduced the island's economy)?

It would take a much more complex, nuanced and well-thought out solution than just scrapping white passports with immediate effect, that's for sure!

This discussion isn't constructive. Do we really think Satya X will be the inspiration for tourism policy in the Caribbean? She's not even from the Caribbean! And she's an extremist (self-proclaimed 'X'). The Caribbean needs better solutions than even having to entertain her yoga colony, and Fox News will never cover important stories like how the islands are recovering from the most devastating hurricane season in modern history with the alacrity as they do this interloper from Brooklyn with crazy ideas! This just encourages negative interactions among people who otherwise might not shout at each other on the internet.

(The answer is no, by the way.) Slightly off topic, but tourism, as it is, can be horrible. Was reading this about the pristine walk in New Zealand now marred by too many tourists flocking there to walk and chucking their bags of poo by the trails. Ewww. www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/22/worlds-finest-walk-new-zealands-milford-track-spoilt-tourists

Off now to deal with horrible people doing horrible things in this place. Our car's been stolen off our driveway last night. Joy.

@Radicalrooster I can tell you actually...

I was a lone black female leaving a Caribbean island ... went to panama then Amsterdam...

It's a popular drug mule route. Instead of asking me questions I was stopped... asked for my passport and a "letter" to show my intentions 😐 and promptly escorted through the airport... put in a room, they took my passport and left me in there... came back asked extensive questions then called my employer back home...then I was let go, not even an apology at the end!

A similar thing happened in while I lived in China ... only black woman on the plane dragged to a room at the airport. Only black woman on the flight having passport check to ensure I'm not from Africa carrying the Ebola virus... whilst my white DH just walked through with his British passport no questions asked... and other white South Africans.

I've been questioned extensively at U.K. airports... my children and DH have British passports I don't, and I not my husband is questioned each and every time about our family 😐. The only place we have never been stopped is Australia! As everything there is online and you can't board the plane without having a visa... you're more likely to get checked at customs than border control in Australia.

Tourism is a massive revenue generator for a lot of governments ... I never advocated for people not having visas... I said I agree with the woman about her retreat... I never said I agreed to anything else.

Tourism is a double edged sword... economies have become reliant on it because what else would work in economies with little to no natural resources and a dependence on commodities pricing and a dollar that has little to no value outside its own internal market place... people would starve etc as there aren't even enough government resources to provide any welfare... so it's work or die really... and I think most people will always choose work over environment, because self preservation. But more can be done to have a balanced a fair system for visitors and tourists alike.

Residents**

But in the short term, if you're just going to do as pancake and the retreat owner suggest and restrict white travel

Nobody here has suggested that all world governments get lobbied to immediately retract all white passports get a grip!

I asked if the people who object to her statement can counter argue that white people having advantagous movement around the world has done the world GOOD not harm.

I said that I understand if people are bloody fed up with white ex pats amd tourists.

I reflected on my own entitled bullshit outlook on my "life changing, mind expanding" teen back packing

I think she made a good point for discussion and refection, and it probably reflects how a lot of people FEEL. And really is no different from saying say "what if women ruled the world for a while, see if we could do it better?" - that doesnt mean that they are about to take out a hit on all powerful men or seize all assets belonging to males. It just means look, men have the advantage right now, and look what theyre doing with it!

Getting up in arms "BUT WHAT ABOUT MY TOURIST DOLLAR" is ignorant and patronising. Most tourist dollars go to international investers anyway. But thats not the point nobody is actually going to stop anyone spending their tourist dolllars, people are just fed up with how its being done!

White privilidge doesnt mean youll never live in poverty. Or be attacked. It doesnt mean you get a silver spoon.

It DOES mean though that there are SOME aspects of being a POC AND poor that you wont ecperience if you are white and poor. Nobody doubts how harrowing it is for a white person to experience and report a crime, but they still wont have experienced some added traumas that you might ecperience if youre a POC reporting a crime.

It just means the privilidge to not have certain shit experiences. It doesnt mean you wont have other shit experiences (which poc who are poor, disabled, gay, female etc can have AS WELL)

PancakeInMaBelly

I think you are misunderstanding the notion of white privilege a little bit.

Like we discussed yesterday, 'white privilege' is a socio-economic theory that describes a characteristic of a group, not of individuals. As has already been quoted in this thread, the application of white privilege to individuals, as if it were a 'thing' that an individual person can 'possess' is a flawed concept.

Its no different from any number of other advantages and disadvantages that a member of a particular group may gain by being part of that group. (In fact the main criticism of the concept of white privilege is that it is often really just a proxy for class).

The concept was certainly never intended to be used as a stick to beat white people with and imply that their opinions on social issues are somehow less worthy of being listened to.

There is even a strong argument that if any group is the victim of a perceived social ill, they are actually the least appropriate people to be able to suggest solutions, as they are by definition going to approach the problem from the least objective position.

What a can of worms this post has opened :O

But maybe its time people started talking openly and sharing information and perspectives to stop racial divisions growing any wider.

Does anyone else - black or white - want a future where skin colour no longer influences (in the UK, at least)?

So that a new attitude of equality can become the adopted and incorporated truth. This means no more 'positive discrimination' which fosters division and racial awareness and pollutes everything again - if you wedge a wound open, it will get re-infected. But if you clean it and close it, it can heal.

‘Positive or negative racial preference’ (favoritism or disregard for one person over another because of their genetic makeup) is NEVER acceptable and should be rejected.

The government seem to be powerless in this issue - their strategy is failing badly, things are getting worse and worse. It seems to be up to normal, ordinary parents - of all colours and races - to put a stop to race inequality by refusing to engage.

White privilidge is something you posess just as much as being able bodied, male, or rich exclude you from experiencing first hand disability, being a woman or poverty.

There is even a strong argument that if any group is the victim of a perceived social ill, they are actually the least appropriate people to be able to suggest solutions, as they are by definition going to approach the problem from the least objective position.
Gee, that worked out so well when men were in charge of womens health issues didnt it?

PancakeInMaBelly Why are you being so stupid? Where was my white priviliage when being called a white slut and why is that not racist? You say only white people can be racist, so why the fuck was my race included in my insult whilst raping me? You seem to have completley ignored my posts even though you typed my name in one of yours.

No matter how poor or ill or unlucky I get I never have to juggle those issues with added issues that come with being black.

That does not mean that I am luckier than all black people. It just means they have a variable I dont have.

In simplistic terms, A white female disabled woman in poverty has 3 variables there that a healthy rich black man doesnt have to deal with. The woman is not luckier in life than the man. She still has white privilidge in that shes not a black poor disabled woman. This doesnt in any way deminish the challenges she does have. Its just acknowledging that there are some challenges she doesnt experience

Quack I didnt ignore your post and Im sorry that happened to you x

White privilidge means you dont experience living as a person of colour just as male privilidge means you dont experience living as a woman. It doesnt mean youll be blessed or lucky or fortunate

Oh my goodness Quack, I am so sorry, there is no excuse for that! It is not only a serious sexual attack, but a racial one too. For me, and what I understand what racism is, making derogatory and offensive remarks and behaviour about a person's race, whatever colour they are.

Massive hugs Quack .

Sorry but can black people really be incapable of racism? Simply because their black?

bubble not in the UK or USA. Not possible. Prejudice: yes. Not racism.

So what about a Pakistani man calling a black man the N word? Or a black man using the P word?

That's just Kala view, of course they can fgs!!

As well as being a rapist, Quacks, attacker was racist too.

Not my own personal view

Still wrong though Kala

IT is kala and it's wrong, and insulting to people like Quack.

As stated umpteen times previously, Kala's definition of racism (i.e. it must involve certain power structures in order to be rendered valid as a concept) is simply a theoretical construct churned out by sociology departments

As PP has stated up thread

Prejudice + power is a stipulative definition of racism used in some contexts and is not intended (was never intended) to be used against an individual and to replace all other definitions of the word